The Flatirons post-flood

Report from the Third. They cut the tree that had fallen at the end of July across the trail to the East Bench. The rest looks more or less like it did a month ago.

The damage to the left of the Second does not affect Freeway and Free for All, but the "trail" used to reach the start of the Kor route, Dodge Block, and South Sneak could be a mess.

I hiked up to the satellites today and saw no damage at all on 95 percent of the actual trail. I am betting that most of the other trails have similar percentages of unaffected terrain.

The only sections with any significant damage are those that were reopened first. Not the trail to the East Bench that departs from the so-called 1st and 2nd Flatiron Loop.

Eli Helmuth wrote:The latest from OSMP: ...The Open Space Board of Trustees will discuss off-trail use and night time closures at the next meeting on October 9th at the Council Chambers located at 1777 Broadway beginning at 6 pm. Any of you are certainly welcome to attend the meeting and address the Board with any comments or concerns...

Thanks to Eli for posting.

The trail running community (e.g. Peter B, Buzz B) has been vocal at the OSMP Board meetings. It would be nice to have some climbing community representation if people have time to attend this Wednesday's meeting. Unfortunately, I have volunteer training at this time.

CJC, I was there today and I saw with my eyes. Everybody can go there and verify that you are a liar.

There is no appreciable damage from the point where you leave the loop all the way to the East Bench. One crosses the drainage you keep babbling about at the base of the Second or right after the Bluebell Shelter, depending on the approach, and no more.

The trail that goes by the base of the Second is among those that were opened first, right after the initial installment of Sept 21. The most damaged trails encountered in the whole journey are actually the ones immediately adjacent to Chautauqua, and those were the very first to be reopened. All this is easily verifiable. Unless you have no idea how to reach the East Bench by the standard trail, that is.

Incidentally, I did the whole loop counterclockwise to check conditions. There are two short stretches that were affected by the runoff of that drainage in the two points where it intersects the loop. They were certainly damaged, and some preliminary repair may have taken place there, but that's it.

There is no conspiracy. Only facts and words that are there for all to see. But those without arguments resort to insults.

Patrick McHeyser wrote:Brenta, if you feel that OSMP is only responsive during election years, could you provide some evidence? Ie. past instances in which OSMP has been unresponsive until an election? It would help the rest of us inform our debate.

Where did I say that OSMP is only responsive during election years?

Patrick McHeyser wrote:Returning to trails, concern over safety for our particular user group does seem absurd. I see no reason why the satellites haven't reopened. That stinks of over caution. With the broader picture in mind however, I think safety is less a concern and more exacerbating existing damage. Trails are not just about "safety" but about limiting harm to the surrounding landscape. In certain areas allowing access is going to create wide swaths of social trails as the masses try to keep their feet dry, step around obstacles, and generally follow the path of least resistance off the trail. This is not trivial, as these trails will begin to erode and widen further, making them more difficult to maintain. I prefer not to see small highways in the middle of the forest which will be there for the rest of that trails lifetime.

I have no objection to this. Then, it's interesting to observe that damaged, muddy trails were reopened in a hurry and Freeway remains closed.

Patrick McHeyser wrote:As to the time frame. Brenta, it is a simple process to see what can be opened immediately. OSMP has opened those trails, have they not?

No, they have not. Which trails/formations are you talking about and when?

Patrick McHeyser wrote:The rest are probably fine in some areas and not in others. Even one severely damaged section warrants closure of the whole thing. Sorry to those of you who would prefer immediate access to long term preservation.

And who would be those? Please, quote; no paraphrase.

Patrick McHeyser wrote:A final thought. I'm not totally on the side of OSMP. They clearly could manage this better. But yelling about conspiracy and how not everything is open is getting nowhere. We just had a giant fucking flood. Things are going to take some time to reopen.

You entirely missed my point. Congratulations. In the meanwhile, BC is opening ahead of schedule.

Here's a graphic of the open and closed areas involving the First, Second and Third Flatirons.

Now that is an informative map. Good to know.

There’s an Open Space Board of Trustees Mtg this evening, 6-8pm, City Council Chambers, 1777 Broadway. Among the agenda items are the Director’s Updates on: a) Flood Impacts to OSMP and b) Open Space Access during Flood Recovery. An FCC representative will speak about nighttime restrictions, off-trail restrictions and the general pace of re-opening the Flatirons. The public is invited to speak.

Also from 6-8pm this evening, 15 climber volunteers will meet with OSMP Staff to learn trail-assessment methods so we can help expedite the re-opening of climbing access.

Do you have to be a Boulder county resident to speak at the meeting?

The latest round of trail openings include some trails on Bear and and South Boulder Peak, Shadow Canyon, Fern Canyon and part of the Mesa Trail. Please see this map for details. These areas are open to on-trail hiking during daylight hours. Despite these openings, climbing remains frustratingly closed. Answers to come.

Gregger Man wrote:Do you have to be a Boulder county resident to speak at the meeting?

From Buzz:

Anyone can speak. Speakers sign up with the Clerk upon arrival and are called in order of signing up. People state their address - which can clearly be outside the City - then have 3 minutes. Everyone is polite and friendly.

brenta wrote: You entirely missed my point. Congratulations.

Brenta, that final thought wasn't directed at you alone. You entirely missed my point. Congratulations.
Clarification of your point would actually be helpful.

brenta wrote: If this were not an election year, I wonder how this situation would play out.

This I did misread, and I apologize. But maybe you could expand on this thought?

brenta wrote: And who would be those? Please, quote; no paraphrase.

Er...

Animal Chin wrote: Makes me want to go up and grid bolt the Flatirons or ride my bike down the Mesa trail every Sat. in protest. Please City of Boulder officials save me from myself! Nature was so dangerous until you fixed it up for me. I'm so glad Open Space is totally protected...from actually doing anything with it.

brenta wrote: Which trails/formations are you talking about and when?

The First was opened a couple weeks after the flood. The Third recently reopened. The other trails have been opened to allow some access for hikers, and minimal repairs were done to all of these. Was that not quick enough for you?
I'll take the ensuing insults, taunts, and ad hominems off the air.
Go out and climb! Shit's open!

A team of volunteers met w/ OSMP Wed (Oct 9) to get schooled on all matters pertaining to assessing climbing-access in closed areas. I think I can speak for the 19 or so volunteers in the room by saying we were impressed with OSMP’s preparation and materials, from forms and maps to comprehensive instructions.

People are assessing access today and more will be out this weekend and into next week. As zones are assessed the data and images will promptly get to OSMP for their review and planning.

At the Open Space Board of Trustees meeting Wed night an FCC rep spoke to the Board and OSMP decision-makers on behalf of the climbing community. They know not only where the climbing community stands but also our passion on a variety of issues – from off-trail and nighttime restrictions to the re-opening process.

OSMP has set-up two separate pages for posting re-opening updates, one for trails and another for climbing terrain. We’ll continue to post updates in this thread.

As a reminder, the only Flatirons climbing terrain currently open are portions of the First and Third Flatiron. See this image for details.

Climbing guides and their clients will be pleased to learn that, effective immediately, OSMP has reinstated Commercial Use Permits.

I climbed "Freeway" on the 2nd last Sunday, even talked with a Ranger at the bottom, and she never said the climb was closed. There was a lot of debris up to the left of the start (mostly between the large boulder and the wall), so I could see how they may want to keep people from going up left to access the other climbs, but there would be no logical reason not to let people climb the Freeway route. It starts from an open trail, and tops out at an open trail.

JLP wrote: They're useless and should all be fired. ~$20k and 30 Mexican landscapers would have had those trails cleaned up weeks ago and looking better than ever. I can't believe this off trail access BS is back. It's a separate [retarded] issue that should have died years ago.

While the off trail and safety issue is BS, I can say with some certainty that you have clearly not been on the trails and do not understand the limits of power and money.
The Bear Canyon trail alone can not be solved with human labor. And I have no idea how you'd get a truck up there. There are thousands of cubic meters of material washed out. Humans can navigate it, yes, but they can not "fix" it without road building equipment.
Spray to the opposite effect reveals an ignorance that undermines what might otherwise be a valid argument and makes it easily dismissed as foolish.
The more valid argument is that humans are capable of walking on a path that a car can not navigate, and that the conditions of those "Trails" (which were drive-able by car) do not need to be restored to be opened.

And here I am agreeing with Tony on Mountain Project! :)

Seriously, most of the real trail damage will require heavy equipment to remedy and increasingly appears to be limited to the lower regions of canyons such as Skunk where the section of the Mesa Trail that crosses it has apparently been completely blasted away. The smaller feeder trails higher up are for the most part untouched.

I think it would be great if OSMP opened up its land to visitors on an at-your-own-risk basis right now. Volunteers are working with OSMP and the FCC to provide info to help that process along.

Peter Beal wrote:And here I am agreeing with Tony on Mountain Project! :)

Ha! I thought the same thing when I read it initially.

Peter wrote:I think it would be great if OSMP opened up its land to visitors on an at-your-own-risk basis right now.

I think it should always be on an at-your-own-risk-basis. The only time I could understand them closing some of the damaged areas is if they are actively being worked on and thus recreators would be in the way.

Additional trail openings include: NCAR Trailhead, NCAR Trail, NCAR Water Tank Rd, NCAR Water Tank access point and Mallory Cave Trail.

Flatirons Climbing Council wrote:Additional trail openings include: NCAR Trailhead, NCAR Trail, NCAR Water Tank Rd, NCAR Water Tank access point and Mallory Cave Trail.

Does this mean Dinosaur Rock / Der Zerkle are open for climbing? They are basically on Trail...