NC Aid Rack?

I've been getting more curious on trying my hand at doing some aid lines at the north side just to satisfy curiosity about how they go. I was thinking of starting with glass menagerie because I'd like to check out the pitches up close anyways after having admired it from afar for so long. Then maybe invisible airwaves. I have a very small rack right now but I have planned on getting doubles in a few of my things. This is my plan for an aid rack...am I missing much that is obvious to you especially in regards to the north side aid routes (the clean ones I don't have an interest in hammering).

AID RACK

2 aiders
2 ascenders
soloist
grigri
TCUs (1x set purple-red)
aliens (1x set black-grey)
C4s (2x set .5-3)
BD stoppers 2x set
micro nuts peanuts (are good I guess? Never used micros)
2 camhooks
BD talon and BD cliffhanger?
some assorted draws
few lockers
2x 60m rope

I thought both invisible and GM would be good because both are easy as shit to bail off of if need be.

That should be enough to get you up the first 5-6 pitches of GM (including the hooks). You'll want some bigger gear up higher.

I've heard the second pitch of IA can go clean but it's relatively sketchy. You can read more about that in last years Accidents in Mountaineering.

I think you are better off on GM based on what you said your goals are.

On GM, if you are new to hooking, you might want a stick clip for the start of the third pitch.

Leave the talon and cliffhanger hooks at home. A cam hook or two is nice to have but not required. Do the Alternate C1 pitch 2. It is an awesome traverse under a small roof. Step up on the P1 anchors to reach the roof and traverse right. Avoids the garbage loose free P2.

whynot7 wrote:Leave the talon and cliffhanger hooks at home. A cam hook or two is nice to have but not required. Do the Alternate C1 pitch 2. It is an awesome traverse under a small roof. Step up on the P1 anchors to reach the roof and traverse right. Avoids the garbage loose free P2.

Thats great to hear since I don't really know how to use those hooks anyhow hehehe :D

Does that skip the 5.8 traverse you mean? I was probably just going to free the first pitch and that traverse and then do aid for the open book next...then figure it out from there...certainly aiding the roof hehehe. Dunno if there is anything a "common man" can free in between the open book and the roof pitch? I'll have to go study the topo.

So IA is hard to do clean then? Thats a bummer its such a beautiful route. Do you need to bash in some circle heads or something to be able to do it?

5.samadhi wrote: So IA is hard to do clean then? Thats a bummer its such a beautiful route. Do you need to bash in some circle heads or something to be able to do it?

If no heads are in place, it'll be scary for a new aid leader to do it totally clean....with hand placed peckers and micronuts. Hard C rating if clean. If heads are there and you don't blow them, the rest goes clean easily. If you've never placed a head, you might want to wait 'til you see how before you bring them along.

Br'er Rabbit wrote: If no heads are in place, it'll be scary for a new aid leader to do it totally clean....with hand placed peckers and micronuts. Hard C rating if clean. If heads are there and you don't blow them, the rest goes clean easily. If you've never placed a head, you might want to wait 'til you see how before you bring them along.

yeah that sounds about right...sounds like a route that will sort itself out in my mind if I got more experience down the line.

5.samadhi wrote:

Cam Hooks i run two narrows, 1 wide, and 1 micro
Hooks: one talon, one normal cliff hanger, 1 filed cliff hanger
Tomahawks: 2 normal, 2 right, 2 left angled - get the ones from moses enterprises - they now have a larger side that is actually designed to be hand placed (its bigger than what i have)

i would add offsets as opposed to double micro cams if you're purchasing. up to maybe yellow/orange metolius ( i use this piece free all the time)

IA goes clean but you HAVE to bring your A game especially if you're soloing (as mentioned). A good belayer will keep you off the ledge, but solo if your hand placed beaks/peckers/tomahawks pop your in for a ride. Its a very proud route to do clean and probably is C2+/C3. Climbing this clean should really become the standard now, but nailing it is still accepted AFAIK.

Kool Aid acid is another great 1 pitch lead for the winter. You can bail off any of the four bolts. The top part is spicy though and i've logged some air time there before solo C1/2.

I'm not sure how small the micro peanuts are but definitelyi need some micro's. I have th brass HB's and i've used down to the smallest - which is oh so uninspiring to top step on.

GM is the first route i hooked on and the first route i popped a hook on. I never leave the ground without a talon and filed cliffhanger - those are staples and i used them in multiple spots on the route including the roof pitch. You can rap from the end of the roof pitch with 2 60's fyi from what i recall if you dont have the big gear for the offwidth which is what we did a few years back. Still dont have any big gear for it. Since your not a 6ft+ behomoth i would always bring hooks. The number of times i'm in NC and a bolt is six inches out of reach and i'm already top-stepping is too many to count. Like this guy (tried to link to picture, browse through the IA photos and youll see which one im talking about) he was on a grey master cam with two lobes and still couldnt reach the damn bolt.

^ haha damn that would suck..."just a liiiiittle biiiiit more....PING!"

What are your thoughts on using the talon/cliffhanger on GM now that it is free route? Is it still OK?

I don't want to break any free holds off accidentally loading one up with all my BW on a talon or something!

i heard about that. Frankly i didnt remember any "fragile holds", the rock on the open book pitch is bomber and i doubt hooking had much to do with it, unless some behemoth of a man was bounce testing his hooks. I did use hooks to get up to the first bolt, but nothing remotely close to a hand hold, and maybe once after that. If the bolt was out of reach i mostly tried to french free aid - pulling on a crimp to snag a draw onto the bolt etc.

It may be a free route to a few, but it is historically an aid route and remains one for most of us, and is the most common way it is climbed - the guys statement that you shouldn't hook on GM is pretty absurd in my opinion, no expanding flakes or fragile holds on the whole route. Be a good steward and use your judgment.

frankly id be less concerned about the holds breaking and more concerned about outcome of popping a hook. Taking a full length daisy onto the 1st piton on P3 hurt like hell. I learned a lot that day, as it was our first aid route.

I'll also add that the roof pitch, the free variation goes up, i aided some thin horizontals to gain direct access to the offwidth without this traverse bull shit. It was pretty exciting and i remember hooking a sketch RP without its cable...amazing what a talon can hook, and using some sketch small gear, to get to a two bolt anchor below the crack. Semi-hanging belay in the groove below the offwidth from where i say 2 60's will reach the ground. Its been over five years since i've been on it, so things may have changed up there with traffic.

rock_fencer wrote:i heard about that. Frankly i didnt remember any "fragile holds", the rock on the open book pitch is bomber and i doubt hooking had much to do with it, unless some behemoth of a man was bounce testing his hooks. I did use hooks to get up to the first bolt, but nothing remotely close to a hand hold, and maybe once after that. If the bolt was out of reach i mostly tried to french free aid - pulling on a crimp to snag a draw onto the bolt etc. It may be a free route to a few, but it is historically an aid route and remains one for most of us, and is the most common way it is climbed - the guys statement that you shouldn't hook on GM is pretty absurd in my opinion, no expanding flakes or fragile holds on the whole route. Be a good steward and use your judgment. frankly id be less concerned about the holds breaking and more concerned about outcome of popping a hook. Taking a full length daisy onto the 1st piton on P3 hurt like hell. I learned a lot that day, as it was our first aid route. I'll also add that the roof pitch, the free variation goes up, i aided some thin horizontals to gain direct access to the offwidth without this traverse bull shit. It was pretty exciting and i remember hooking a sketch RP without its cable...amazing what a talon can hook, and using some sketch small gear, to get to a two bolt anchor below the crack. Semi-hanging belay in the groove below the offwidth from where i say 2 60's will reach the ground. Its been over five years since i've been on it, so things may have changed up there with traffic.

sounds awesome!

I believe some bolts were recently replaced on the roof pitch :)

I learned how to aid solo on the first couple pitches of GM. I would do the alternate p2, not the traverse. That way you can skip the hardish hook move off the normal p2 anchors.

This topo has the alternate pitch.

p1 goes relatively free at 5.10ish, the last couple of moves are off those rusty piece of sh*t looking bolts, easily aided. Might want to bring an edge protector of sorts.

Its a fun climb

5.samadhi wrote: sounds awesome! I believe some bolts were recently replaced on the roof pitch :)

the bolts on P1 were recently replaced, bolts on P4 i believe are still mixed. There are good and bad bolts. The bad bolts are plenty for body weight, and there are plenty good ones too added sometime in 2000-2010. I'm not sure if nathan, phil, and company worked on those too.

highexposures.photoshelter.…

chris brown has some killer shots off this route

rock_fencer wrote: the bolts on P1 were recently replaced, bolts on P4 i believe are still mixed. There are good and bad bolts. The bad bolts are plenty for body weight, and there are plenty good ones too added sometime in 2000-2010. I'm not sure if nathan, phil, and company worked on those too. highexposures.photoshelter.… chris brown has some killer shots off this route

Recently like this last Sunday I meant :)

Thanks for all the beta T

"No amount of gear will take the place of skill or will." Sounds like you have all the basics, 5.samadhi. Kudos for wanting to get out there. You'll figure it out.

Have Fun! I was an El Cap vet before I climbed the N.Face of the Glass. It's like stacking cruxes. Serious climbing that will fer sure get your attention.

TW!!!! What's up?!?

While you are over there, Rowan's Route has a nice first pitch for clean aid that didn't seem any harder than the beginning of Glass Managerie. It has a traverse so you get to practice cleaning one of those. The second pitch is like the third on Invisible Airwaves. Lots of fixed junk which is easy but scary, at least to me.

I found the bd grappling hook useful in addition to the smaller hooks on some of those routes. If you are going to get into aid climbing to any degree, some Tomahawks are incredibly helpful.

You can use clean aid on many of the free cracks there and it's a great way to get your system dialed in and move faster.

Thank you whoever you are who replaced those manky tinfoil iron-oar hangars on the 1st pitch. Those were going to get someone a skid mark on their drawers.

A few points

-You will want the hooks on GM. I've climbed that route many times, and there are places on the first 3 pitches that are made much easier with a hook move.

-If you go high on GM, you will want up to a #5 C4.

-IA is hard to do cleanly - harder than C3 I've done in Yosemite. I was scared on my hand-placed peckers, and the route was in ANAM last year for a devastating fall. Not many people (certainly not me, as I have hammered it) would give you grief for hammering peckers high on P2.

Also, it's generally bad form to place heads on a trade route. Leave the heads in the bag or better yet in the store.

unless someone zippers all of the heads on the route =]