Wild Country Zero...Underrated?

Originally a person who squeezed the gritty trigger of the WC Zero in the gear shop and thought, "WTF is this piece of junk"...I am now a convert after trying them, especially in the larger sizes (where they can be compared to similar-sized cams). Cam stops, great flexibility, extendable sling, good ranges...am I the only one that thinks these things are great? Have you had the opposite experience (i.e. used them and hated them)? The rubbing of the trigger against the stem of the cam took a few minutes to get used to; that aside, I think they're terrific, underrated pieces of equipment.

Ryan Nevius wrote:Originally a person who squeezed the gritty trigger of the WC Zero in the gear shop and thought, "WTF is this piece of junk"...I am now a convert after trying them, especially in the larger sizes (where they can be compared to similar-sized cams). Cam stops, great flexibility, extendable sling, good ranges...am I the only one that thinks these things are great? Have you had the opposite experience (i.e. used them and hated them)? The rubbing of the trigger against the stem of the cam took a few minutes to get used to; that aside, I think they're terrific, underrated pieces of equipment.

The larger sizes are bomber but the smaller sizes, namely the 1 and 2, are tinker toys.

Man I love my zeroes. Great tight spots and the flexibility is wonderful. Honestly I didn't think they would last long but they're actually really tough. Zeroes are old news though, have you tried the heliums!? Really enjoying the heliums

I want to like the Heliums more than I do...I'm just not super impressed with the sling connection to the thumb loop or the single-axle ranges. The long stem and lobe shape / weight are nice though.

Microcams are fantastic if you climb on strong rock. I've loved the Zeros for years. However I find Master Cams better though Zeros are rated slightly higher.

Nothing can match the green No.2 Zero though. The only competition are ball nuts. Many people don't like them, but <5kN pieces have caught many falls before. My attitude is that it is better to have them than to have a run out.

I've placed my green quite a few times and every time I was extremely thankful for having it.

Ryan all that trash about double axles having more range is just that, trash. Those heliums got a little more range than I bet you're giving credit for. Play with them in cracks a little more umbrellad than you usually would and see what happens. Bet you get surprised. What don't you like about the sling on thumb loop. My only gripe is actually the length when they hang off my harness.

BigCountry wrote:Ryan all that trash about double axles having more range is just that, trash. Those heliums got a little more range than I bet you're giving credit for. Play with them in cracks a little more umbrellad than you usually would and see what happens. Bet you get surprised. What don't you like about the sling on thumb loop. My only gripe is actually the length when they hang off my harness.

How do you figure that? The extra range of dual axles is obvious. In the flesh and on paper.

The extra range isn't huge though.

Ive used and whipped on all the larger zeros for years

When placed well they hold very well ... They are the only microcam with full rated camstops

They arent as easy to place as my aliens or tcus however IMO ... The trigger isnt as smooth

;)

bearbreeder wrote:Ive used and whipped on all the larger zeros for years When placed well they hold very well ... They are the only microcam with full rated camstops They arent as easy to place as my aliens or tcus however IMO ... The trigger isnt as smooth ;)

Older Zero's did have a smooth trigger. However the newer ones have longer stems and a wider trigger design. These aren't as smooth.

They can be a bit noodly, but I still think they're the best small cams on the market, just because you can engage the cams asymmetrically, which makes extraction a lot easier.

The stiffener coil spring thing makes the trigger action feel crunchy, but its never affected a placement I've made.

I have 1 short stem and 4 long stems

I think the trigger on all of them are rough compared to the aliens especially

;)

Has anybody had issues with the short-stem versions? I've heard the long-stems are a vast improvement.

I have the short stem versions and I really like them I find them easy to handle. I've heard some people have issues with the small trigger though. What I mean by trash is I find the extra range of double axles not enough to be a big deal. Lol damn poetic wording this morning. When you say the difference in range between single and double axles isn't huge, I say the difference is small enough to be insignificant.

BigCountry wrote:When you say the difference in range between single and double axles isn't huge, I say the difference is small enough to be insignificant.

From a purely theoretical standpoint, with each design fully optimized, the difference is ~10% when measured from fully compressed to tipped out IIRC.

Bigger issue, IMO, is that "range" is a fuzzy term with no industry standard method of measurement. Does it mean fully compressed to tipped out, or something less? Depends on who's cams you're looking at.

Anyway, as for Zeros I'd say they're vastly underrated. My preference is for long stem, as the short ones are a bit harder to get deep with man-hands. That said, I have both though and frankly either work just fine.

Ha beauty and range are in the eye of the beholder! Love it! Yeah they are rough if they get to deep especially with bigger mitts

They're good. Giddum and be happy.

nicelegs wrote:Make a tremendously functional piece of gear that isn't smooth at the gear store and watch it languish in obscurity.

its not just in the store ...

there are certain reach around placements where i can place an alien and basically push it in

with a zero i cant do that ...

now one can say that you should never place a reach around piece that you cant see the best ... but then ill place you on certain climbs on lead where thats the only real option, and you tell me when yr there you wont place the gear, and ill buy u a beer if you dont get hurt

the other thing is that when yr pumped out of your mind, smooth trigger and lobe action is one of the little things at your total limit which could make the difference

like i said ive whipped on all of mine ... and they work just fine

every cam has advantaged and disadvantages ... no one has a perfect cam

;)

bearbreeder wrote: there are certain reach around placements where i can place an alien and basically push it in with a zero i cant do that ...

Not sure I follow that, unless you're not pulling the trigger on the Alien? Also not quite following why you'd place a cam blind, but as you said, that's another discussion. :)

I've fallen on a Z1 doing a 80 foot clean aid roof, about a 6 foot fall into clean air, but it held...I think those things are great...

Aric Datesman wrote: Not sure I follow that, unless you're not pulling the trigger on the Alien? Also not quite following why you'd place a cam blind, but as you said, that's another discussion. :)

you dont pull on the trigger very much in those instances ...

just place it and push it in ... especially if the placement is at the limit of your reach

as to placing it somewhat blind ... thats your choice as to no gear or something ...

another issue with the zero is that the stem wire gets a bit kinked more easily than the aliens IME ... here you can see the gray (which has seen maybe 1 short fall) and the yellow (which has seen enough whippers) vs. the green alien (which has seen MANY whippers)

with the aliens even if the stem gets a bit kinked, its not a big deal as the lobes still pull pretty evenly due to the trigger wires being connected to the sheath

the zeros are VERY sensitive to the kinks/bends or the trigger wires getting slightly out of alignment, or just catching on the lobes when you pull it ... i need to check and possibly readjust the zeros prior to every hard climb ... theres been at least one time ive pulled the zero off the harness to go place it and noticed the cams lobes were pulling very unevenly

gray zero

yellow zero

green alien

also note than all these thumb loop cams with thinner dyneema slings ... good sized falls or repeated whippers will likely kink the thumb loop ... as you can see in the pics above

dont get me wrong ... i do like the zeros as they are the ONLY microcam with full rated stops ...

but they can be finicky ... especially compared to aliens which are considered some of the best and smoothest microcams for a reason

;)

BigCountry wrote:What don't you like about the sling on thumb loop?

The sling attachment to the thumb loop is too tight. Here is an exaggerated photo of how a sling can torque a cam placement, if the sling slides over to the side of the loop. This cam is hanging by the carabiner. This is nearly impossible to recreate with a Camalot. The way it is sewn, the sling doesn't move as freely as it should about the thumb loop. I've noticed cams walk as a result of this grabbing effect the sling has on the thumb loop.

WC Helium sling attachment...issue?