What's the deal with the chair in RC?

Rock Canyon has some striking climbing features minutes from town. It is a very small area, hence a very limited resource. We should tread these resources lightly. As climbers we must be leaders in environmental responsibility preserving for future climbers and outdoor enthusiast to enjoy. Found this posted on FB. IMO I'm not sure this is something we want in RC.

Lawn Chair

mountainproject.com/v/can-u…

It's merely the logical evolution of the shit show the canyon has become.

+1 for Zoso

People these days will cry about anything. I'm sure that this little thing isn't going to jeopardize anything so just suck it up and deal with it like a real man. If it means that much to it sac up and go chop the bolts.

reddit.com/r/climbing/comme…

Tom Lausch wrote:People these days will cry about anything. I'm sure that this little thing isn't going to jeopardize anything so just suck it up and deal with it like a real man. If it means that much to it sac up and go chop the bolts.

Well Tom, I'm glad you are okay with the eye soar all the way over in Madison, WI. Some of us do care about our local climbing areas and how they are treated. I learned how to multipitch in RC. It is a special place to me and I would like to see it preserved for others to enjoy. I'd like to take my kids up this wall someday on Bad Bananas and enjoy the natural climbing area.

As my original post says, IMO I'm not sure this is something we want in RC. Since it is posted in the Wasatch forum; I am just bringing it to the attention of the local climbers in the area. Provo has a great climbing community. The stewards in the area have donated so much time, money, energy and sweat to develop these areas. We are talking thousands of hours (maybe tens).

It is not okay for a dude putting up unnecessary bolts and a lawn chair on a popular wall to impress his girlfriend. We owe more to those that spent unbelievable time making RC what it is.

My 2 cents.

Allred - I guess the question is - who gets to determine how to use the rock? The "eyesore" that you see is probably the same way non-climbers see the bolts on your favorite multipitch up Bad Bananas. There seems to be some sort of a logical disconnect that allows someone to say "these areas need to be carefully protected...putting bolts and leaving chalk on the wall is a perfectly reasonable way to protect this area but building a chair and bolting it to the wall isn't."

Ethics don't work unless they're distilled down to logical, easy-to-understand principles. The only principle I'm seeing articulated is "if it follows my preferred method of enjoying the outdoors then it's acceptable but if it doesn't conform to my preferred method then it's unacceptable."

Allred - I'm always interested in constructive discussions. But just asserting that this guy (who I happen to know) made this "to impress his girlfriend" is a pretty lame way of trying to win your argument by demeaning his intentions (without actually knowing anything about them).

Austin Baird wrote:Allred - I guess the question is - who gets to determine how to use the rock? The "eyesore" that you see is probably the same way non-climbers see the bolts on your favorite multipitch up Bad Bananas. There seems to be some sort of a logical disconnect that allows someone to say "these areas need to be carefully protected...putting bolts and leaving chalk on the wall is a perfectly reasonable way to protect this area but building a chair and bolting it to the wall isn't." Ethics don't work unless they're distilled down to logical, easy-to-understand principles. The only principle I'm seeing articulated is "if it follows my preferred method of enjoying the outdoors then it's acceptable but if it doesn't conform to my preferred method then it's unacceptable."

lawyerspeak, A.B. must be in law school. I agree even though I might have just taken it down within a week.

Hey, it's just another cool outdoor pic posted here. Original, interesting, fun in the outdoors. That's all I'm taking it for.

It's a simple question. Do you think there are people who are as offended by the sight of your bolts as you are by this chair? If so, then it's obvious that there is no objective standard for determining what is and isn't acceptable for recreating in the outdoors.

If there's no objective standard for determining acceptability, it's not appropriate for one specific user group to set their provincial standards as the standards by which all other user groups must abide.

I'm not high, but I'm pretty sated off Belgian waffles right now.

Arguing about a bolt (whats the diameter of a bolt plus hanger?) and comparing it to the same level of eye sorriness of this lawn chair attached to the rock that could most likely be seen by any ordinary person from about 100 yards away, when a 20 year climber could have a difficult time picking out a single bolt on a wall, is an interesting one to make.

I will buy beer or pitch in for any other reward for who rips this thing off the wall ASAP. This is exactly the publicity we do not need as climbers. If its up there still when I come up in a few weeks, I will personal rip it down and any other trash that the Utah country crowd is ok with.

Rob Schwarzmann

^^
cool. so anyone can do whatever they want to do. i think it would be neat if the boulders in camp 4 were different colors. time to bust out the spraypaint.

Sweet action Rob. Make sure to post up afterwards so we can all revel in your strong sense of ethics and your giant balls and willingness to stand up to the "Utah county crowd". Strong work bro.

Personally, I can't stand all those bolts down in Zion. I'll buy beer for anyone willing to rip them out. Or maybe I'll do it next time I'm down there. Evidently that's how we roll here in Utah.

merica....fuck yeah.

if it stays fixed, i can see getting all shitty about it. but if they haul it up and carry it off, it's just a pimped out portaledge.

bottom line, it looks like they're having a good time. if you're going to try starting some epic shitstorm about it, go back to said person's facebook and deal with it one on one instead of posting it on mp.

xoxo

I find it interested that you are worried about a removable chair on a wall in rock canyon, yet you aren't concerned about bolts next to cracks and added bolts to climbs that originally didn't have them or were gear protected. I started climbing in RC more then 25 years ago. I have seen so many, in my opinion, unwanted changes. I thought the chair was a unique feature on a pretty chossy wall. I'm not sure I would want it to be there permanently, but how does it differ from all the bolts that have been added throughout the canyon? Even if you look at just the bolts added to old existing climbs. Walk across the canyon from this wall and take a look...
Dallen

I just hope they make another sweeeeet ass video like the one about the rope swing.

NOT

BOOTY! If draws left on a climb overnight are fair game, then this chair should be too.

In all seriousness, Allred and the rest of the locals that are decrying this abomination, if you find this so offensive why don't you do something about it? Drive your car up to the nice paved parking lot, use the public bathroom, hike up the improved and manicured trail to your favorite bolted route, proceed to where where the chair is located, eliminate the eyesore and restore this slice of god's beautiful creation back to it's natural state.