Crime and Punishment- Rumney

I bolted this route, actually named "Climb and Punishment" in 96, and sent it immediately after. It seemed to get harder over the years, but attempts were far apart. A couple of years ago I got a complaint that the crux bolt was hard to clip, so I fixed a sling and biner to lengthen it. I planned to return and replace it with a chain, but didn't get around to it.

Today I returned and found the reason for the tough clip, holds have broken. It is also very difficult to reach the next bolt once over the roof. Again the key holds are gone.

I am wondering if anyone has done it recently, and what they think. I think it is now much more difficult, perhaps in the 5.12 range. It is hard enough, that I can't even judge whether it is reasonable or not.

I would appreciate feedback: grade, whether bolts should be added or moved, or even whether the route should be removed.

Thanks to all, Tim

Tim, we have not been on it this year but last year several of my friends went up the route. Tho they commented that the clip is hard and there is a big move, they did not think .11b or .11b/c was out of grade for the climb. Perhaps the breakage you speak of is more recent than 12 months ago.

First the move over the roof got much harder, now once over the roof the moves left seem to have fewer options. Hopefully someone else will get on it and give me some current feedback.

The opening easy ground could use a brush, and I will replace that sling with a chain if warranted. tk

Hi Tim, I onsighted this route a few weeks ago. Both roofs were tricky for me as I couldn't look over the bulges to spot holds and so there was a lot of downclimbing and resting involved. I was very happy for the fixed sling, without which the crux would have been much harder. Overall I thought it was a slightly stiff for the guidebook grade (11b), maybe a bit harder than Cereal Killer (11c). I'd say it could be 11c+ or 11d- but definitely didn't feel 12a to me.

Anyhow, thanks for putting up this fantastic route! It climbs very well and is quite aesthetic, my favorite at the Armed and Dangerous area, shame it doesn't get much traffic due to being on the ledge.

For what it's worth: questions like this are very difficult to answer well because of a psychological phenomenon called "anchoring." Once 11b is listed, many people will stay very close to that number if you ask for a grade, even if the climb is really a 5.7 or a 5.14d.

For the former they'd say it was easy 5.11, probably only 5.10 something, but they'd have a hard time saying it was 5.7. For the latter, they'd say that was really hard 5.11, maybe 5.11d, but people would rarely go beyond the 11s for their grade, even if it is. Obviously, the grades I made up here are purposely and absurdly extreme, for illustration.

Just FYI, so take your grade recommendations with a grain of salt, and don't discount your knowledge of how the route has changed.

(Just speaking in general, also, not about this route in particular. Anchoring can be used by an unscrupulous car salesman to rob you of money. If they anchor the price at a really high value, you'll have a hard time imagining that you should actually cut the value in half, because your mind is psychologically anchored by the first highball value).

"thinking fast and slow?" In this case, we have done so many routes close to the grade, in the same area, that I think a consensus is likely. tk

Keyan,Glad you like the route. so you would vote for a permanent extension on the crux bolt? tk

I sent this route for the first time about a month ago. I'd say mid 5.11. Sort of a one move wonder but very fun nonetheless. It would be a difficult onsight considering the blind moves at the first bulge. And if you don't go out left at the second bulge you have to pull more 5.11 moves...a mistake I made the first couple tries.

Tim, I believe a permanent extension would be good, it also helped a lot for cleaning.

Tim, I haven't been on Climb and Punishment in a while, so don't remember the clip exactly, but would it be possible to relocate the bolt if clipping is an issue, so we wouldn't need chain hanging off the cliff? When I climbed the route in the past, I remember a couple of places where you definitely didn't want to get suckered into going directly for the bolts.

Great route by the way! It is absolutely worth fixing up if it needs it.

There is already a fixed red sling that you can't see from below. Chain or permadraw are best solutions(I have anchor chains). Rock is suspect when you get closer to the lip.