BD Clothes?

Has anyone bought any of the offerings from the new Black Diamond Clothing line? How have you liked it?

Can't afford to take the risk. I've spent quite a bit on their gloves , and all though I like the fit and quality right out of the box they don't hold up over time.

dank,

Have you compared them with other established clothing mfrs.?
BD Primaloft 1 60gm
OR Primaloft 1 60 gm
OR guaranteed against defect. BD ?
The investment firm that bought them wants to show profits. Now.
If I were to guess, they probably had an exclusionary contract with Yvon and once they sold it was no longer in effect.

STILL own 3 beat up but useable pairs of early edition Chouinard (later Patagonia) double layer canvas climber pants. They either shrank since then, or God forbid I gained 30 pounds and 6 inches on my ass and waist.

I personally will avoid their stuff. Not the biggest fan of their gear. To me, they are similar to the north face-they are so big that you can always find some of their crap for dirt cheap because they over produced (clearance). All pieces I have from them have been bought on clearance and none have been great. They do have a bib which looks cool-still won't buy it though.

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote:Has anyone bought any of the offerings from the new Black Diamond Cothong line? How have you liked it?

BPD it might be best to ask clay meier about the quality of the BD Cothong.
He is our resident authority on climbing thongs. Thats Me

Tom-osaurus Rex wrote: BPD it might be best to ask clay meier about the quality of the BD Cothong. He is our resident authority on climbing thongs.

Ha, Borat wore it better, Full disclosure, I edited the spelling. Maybe should have left it for posterity.

As for the BD gear. I find myself most interested in their "Stance" belay jacket line. From what I've read so far, it looks like a really good product in a category that isn't necessarily being hit out of the ballpark by anyone else right now. But like you said Jim, no definite warranty for defects makes it a gamble,

The Blueprint Part Dank wrote: Ha, Borat wore it better, Full disclosure, I edited the spelling. Maybe should have left it for posterity. As for the BD gear. I find myself most interested in their "Stance" belay jacket line. From what I've read so far, it looks like a really good product in a category that isn't necessarily being hit out of the ballpark by anyone else right now. But like you said Jim, no definite warranty for defects makes it a gamble,

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-das-parka?p=84102-0-340

The DAS has more insulation for the same price...
Lots of people putting out synthetic belay parkas, I like BD gear, but I think for soft goods I'll continue to buy from other folks (patagonia, OR etc.)

I have not seen any of the BD clothing line. But did look at their web site and posted a couple of comments that were based on their info and common knowledge in the industry..

the 2nd comment is based on the BD clothing reps comments..

1st comment:

"PrimaLoft Synergy® insulation" in their show case belay jacket. Far as I needed to look.

Lame, and cheap.
Country of Origin : Bangladesh
Clo of .73 and .61. By comparison Primaloft One which is neither lame or cheap is .92 and .90.

primaloft.com/en/performa..…

Corporate raiders didn't do BD or its customers any favors imo. With that simple example I am sure they will turn a handy profit however so the stock is a decent buy.

On the other hand Patagonia has really upped their game in the alpine/ski line the last couple of seasons. BD did score snagging both Arcteryx and Patagonia clothing designers. My guess would be they aren't the ones picking Primaloft Synergy insulation for the belay parka application. Funny how we don't see BD gear plastered all over the pages of the Patagonia catalogs and store fronts now

2nd comment:
I was quoting the marketing department. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't a complete doof in my comments so I looked further.

and got this for the other insulation pieces:

PrimaLoft Synergy® insulation (80 g/m2) on the body and PrimaLoft® ONE insulation (60 g/m2) on underam and sidepanels

Jax said :

"There are 4 other pieces that make up the bulk of the Primaloft collection that ALL use Primaloft One, some with 80g, some with 60g. "

All use some Primaloft One. None use it totally. And it is a small percentage at best. Primaloft Synergy might well be as good as Coreloft, few really knows I suspect. Synergy is but a 1/3 of the insulation per weight that Primaloft One is give or take the water content. But the choices in insulation are money driven generally not performance driven. Which no one in the industry seems to want to talk about.

Arcteryx's ThermaTek™ is very expensive to make and works extremely well for the intended purpose. And you pay for it in a $625 or a $450, bench mark, synthetic belay jacket. Mortals buy their own chit. Might as well know a little bit about and understand some of what you are actually paying for.

Kids buy Peak XV parkas (way more parka than any of these) for winter bouldering and the climbing rags review them as such. You'll be missing a lot of market share if your gear isn't for the posers out there that can read the ad copy. $300 covers just about everyone's full on synthetic belay parka except Arcteryx. And they are damn close with the "cheap" Atom SV @ 100g of Coreloft and a $259 retail.

As an example Patagonia's DAS is •120g PrimaLoft Synergy polyester insulation throughout
•Additional 60g PrimaLoft One polyester insulation in torso
$300 retail and 180g of insulation in the torso, 120g every where else @ 21oz.

The BD version is: Pertex® shell (40d 60 g/m2, plain-weave nylon with DWR) -nice addition btw-with PrimaLoft Synergy® insulation (80 g/m2, two-layer) $300 and 160g of insulation @ 28oz.

And I'd bet some serious cross pollination on those specific design teams. Having beat up Patagonia prior on their new DAS (by comoparison to the BD effort a very nice jacket IMO btw) for the same reason it seems obvious now.

original converstaion is here:
tetongravity.com/forums/sho…

Patagonia, Arcteryx, OR? Known players I trust
.

Dane wrote:*snip* Patagonia, Arcteryx, OR? Known players I trust .

Great post honestly. And I love Patagonia and Arc'Tyrex. I have plenty of clothing from them and dont see any reason to change that now.

Tom-osaurus Rex wrote: BPD it might be best to ask clay meier about the quality of the BD Cothong. He is our resident authority on climbing thongs.

Other colors than green I hope,,, and some gear rack attachments would be nice too.

I don't know about their new stuff, but I still wear a couple
of pair of climbing pants I got from them years ago (of course,
some of it had the Chouinard label). . .

Remember how awesome the BD alpine schoeller pants were??

They are making schoeller again. That seems good in my book.
I still have those old alpine pants, and they are still great.

What other companies are still making clothing from that?
(The best fabric for holding up…)

theres no excuse not use use PL1 or an equivalent insulation ...

none of this PL sport, synergy, eco or whatever lower priced insulation

even MEC and LL bean use PL1 as the insulation type in their top garments ...

mec nanopuff equivalent at 2/3 the list price ...

mec.ca/product/5025-734/mec…

ll bean nanopuff copy with PL1 for 80$

llbean.com/llb/shop/72189

theres absolutely no reason why companies that charge $$$$ for "performance" insulated jackets cant use top of the line materials when "budget" places like LL bean and MEC do it all the time and make money just fine

for schoeller pants try OR ... outdoorresearch.com/en/or-g…

;)

catalog.blackdiamondequipme…

Slide 14

"OUR WARRANTY
FULL COMMITMENT. GUARANTEED.
We trust what we make because we use what we make. If for any reason, you're not 100% satisfied with your Black Diamond apparel, we'll repair, replace or refund it. No charge. No fine print. No debate. Guaranteed."

Charles Savel wrote: ...but do wish that more company's in North America would use schoeller.

I agree with this. Schoeller is some quality softshell. I like the Marmot M3 material quite a bit as well but the 80's neon shit that marmot is putting out now is too much of a turn-off.

I still don't understand the Recco thing on all of the BD pants though. Doesn't translate to a touring or climbing pant at all, in my opinion.

I guess Arc'teryx might have had some success on the strength of the gimmick with REI type crowds, just hope BD isn't gunning for that demographic.

I'd rather just see solid, clean styling and a functional pant. Not gimmicks.

MEC is reporting Primaloft One insulation for Stance Belay Parka (160 g) and Hoody (80 g)
mec.ca/product/5032-320/bla…
mec.ca/product/5032-321/bla…

I liked the fit and quality of materials when I tried it on in store. The Parka wood by a good Bivy jacket; however, the Hoody does not pack into it's pockets and you can't hang it from the harness so it's more aimed at the front country crowd.

FosterK wrote:MEC is reporting Primaloft One insulation for Stance Belay Parka (160 g) and Hoody (80 g) mec.ca/product/5032-320/bla… mec.ca/product/5032-321/bla… I liked the fit and quality of materials when I tried it on in store. The Parka wood by a good Bivy jacket; however, the Hoody does not pack into it's pockets and you can't hang it from the harness so it's more aimed at the front country crowd.

the MEC site is wrong ... BD site shows a mix of synergy and PL1

;)

I own some BD gear that's treated my wife and I well. I would be up for rocking some of BD's jackets or mid layers but.. I noticed my fatass can't fit into BD sizing.. Well actually my butt is the only thing that would fit being XL waist sizing is a 38. The 45-47 inch chest would be like wearing a road bike jersey.

The Arteryx Dually jacket in XL fits great. Does Black Diamond make anything with a 54 inch chest and a 36 inch sleeve? Can't find anything after using Google.

akafaultline wrote:I personally will avoid their stuff. Not the biggest fan of their gear. To me, they are similar to the north face-they are so big that you can always find some of their crap for dirt cheap because they over produced (clearance). All pieces I have from them have been bought on clearance and none have been great. They do have a bib which looks cool-still won't buy it though.

I think you are confusing them with somebody else. Black Diamond Inc. has just launched their apparel line. You are probably confusing them with a crappy ski clothing company Black Diamond, you can usually find their stuff in the bargain basement type of stores.

doligo wrote: I think you are confusing them with somebody else. Black Diamond Inc. has just launched their apparel line. You are probably confusing them with a crappy ski clothing company Black Diamond, you can usually find their stuff in the bargain basement type of stores.

HA! i have a Black Diamond vest (logo is double black diamond i think).. always gave me a chuckle.