BD X4, ongoing real-world review (will update over time)

D.Buffum wrote:Do Master Cams have the slightly smaller cam angle that Metolius usually uses -- trading a slightly lesser range for greater outward force (i.e. holding srength)? That would be another difference.

Yes, as far as I know all Metolius cams (except the Supercams) use the same 13.25 degree camming angle.

After minimal usage, I already have a bunch of minor niggles with the X4s:

1) The expansion range is not exactly as advertised.
.2 X4: 9.9 - 16.5 mm
0 C3: 10.7 - 15.8 mm
According to specs, the yellow X4 should fully cover the range (and lower!) of the green C3. In reality, a fully retracted .2 is a touch larger than a fully retracted green C3, maybe by a millimeter. This is still good enough for me to consider the .2 and .3 to be (pretty much) covering the whole expansion range of the top 3 C3s (0-2).

2) The weight is not exactly as advertised. (For neurotic gram-counters)
size | weight(g) | measured
0.2 | 54 | 63.1
0.3 | 75 | 84.3
0.4 | 82 | 89.4
0.5 | 91 | 97.5
I have two .2s and two .3s that weigh the same. The difference over specs is ~10%. Not a big deal, but not perfect.

3) The .75 is a bit floppy for my liking, so I chose not to pick it up. I thought it might become worse over time but this is conjecture. This one is purely subjective preference.

4) In addition to stem kinking, there is a bit of... curve or misalignment developing between the trigger bar and cam head over the armored cable beads (after only a couple days of use!). Not a big deal, but not perfect.

cable beads losing shape

5) On both my .3s, the trigger pull became rather gritty and sticky after accidental contact with dirt. I didn't expect this to happen so quickly, on my first trip out. It might be that the open hollow lobes housing the springs trap debris more easily than typical. A couple applications of metolius cam lube and washing under running water took care of it fine. Not a big deal, but something to watch. This has never happened with my C4s.

6) The smaller X4s (.1-.3) have a slightly wider head than the larger ones (.4-.75).
Isn't the purpose of the internal springs supposed to be for narrow head width? There does not seem to be a point to this design feature when the X4s without internal springs are narrower.

head width: .2 and .3

head width: .2 and .5

7) The lobes taper on the larger X4s (.4-.75), and are quite narrow for some parts of the expansion range. Not confidence-inspiring.

X4 lobes: outside range is ~2/3 the width of C4 lobes

.5 C4 next to retracted .5 X4: the X4 lobes are the same width as the C4 only for the smallest third of the expansion range

8) The C4s still somehow feel better. The trigger pull feels stiffer (and maybe a little shorter) on the X4s and that might have something to do with it. Like shoo said above, the C4s just have that bomber feeling. I find the X4s less so.

That being said, I still prefer X4s over all other small cams. I would recommend getting the .2, .3, and .4 and sticking with C4s above. Here are some things I particularly like about the X4s:

1) Expansion range is good. For me, the range increase over master cams (especially that crappy orange) is noticeable and makes the X4s easier to place. I also replaced C3s 0-2 with these and am comfortable with it.
2) Consistency with C4s (color-coding, good size-overlaps)
3) Less bulk hanging on the harness than C3s and C4s
4) Slightly longer slings than C4s
5) NOT doubled extendable slings
6) Polish and overall "production value" ... these things look the part.

John Gehrig wrote:Anyone climb on the Double Axle .4-.75 X4s yet? I've climbed on the stacked axle cams (.1-.3), and they are great. But my new .4's lobes only retract ~80%. Seems like the nylon trigger doesn't work well... Anyone else have this problem? Unfortunately, I wont be able to actually climb on it for a while due to an injury. I imagine this would cause the cam get to stuck alot.

No problems with mine. Been using them exclusively for the past two months.

I have the .4 X4, and also agree that the way the trigger "wires" are attached is odd. This results in a cam that retracts VERY smoothly for the first 80% of the pull, and gets to be a pain in the ass for the last 20% (and pretty much impossible for the last 10% of the range).

I expected the .4 X4 to be able to fully cover the range of a yellow mastercam, but it can't due to this "issue."

That said, if I wanted something more flexible than a mastercam, I'd take a WC Zero or Alien in this range before the X4. The double axle X4's just aren't living up to my expectations. YMMV.

Looks like mine had too much glue used on the nylon "wires" which caused opposite lobes to interfere with each other. I grabbed a screwdriver and scrapped the excess glue off, and the cam now retracts comfortably though about 95% of its range.

The issue was the nylon wouldn't rotate like a wire and the glue was holding the nylon at a constant angle coming out of the cam lobe. Tough to describe, but I imagine that the cam will get better retracting with use.

John Gehrig wrote:Looks like mine had too much glue used on the nylon "wires" which caused opposite lobes to interfere with each other. I grabbed a screwdriver and scrapped the excess glue off, and the cam now retracts comfortably though about 95% of its range. The issue was the nylon wouldn't rotate like a wire and the glue was holding the nylon at a constant angle coming out of the cam lobe. Tough to describe, but I imagine that the cam will get better retracting with use.

That's exactly what's happening and causing most of the problem. I've found that the more I use them, the more the "wires" are loosening up, and the larger the range is getting. The design itself (i.e. the location in which the wires attach to the lobes), is responsible for the last < 5% of unusable range. This final 5% will never be usable, no matter how well the wires work. Not a huge deal. Still not sure I'm sold on these...time will tell, I suppose.

For what it's worth, while this isn't an issue on mine, I could see how this could happen. There is a touch too much glue on one of mine also. If there was a little more, it could restrict the trigger pull a bit. On mine, I can pull the trigger such that the lobes are basically entirely, with just a very, very small amount left over if I manually squeeze the lobes together. This is also the case with my mastercams and some c4s.

Unless the glue job is really bad (and it sounds like it is for some), I don't really see a general issue. That last bit of pull puts you way into overcammed territory anyway, so it isn't really usable range. Plus, you can use that bit of range if you're desperate just from shoving the cam in, but risk getting it stuck.

That being said, there is no glue spillover whatsoever on my mastercams, while there is some on my x4s. I suppose you could add that as points to the mastercams just being an overall better constructed and more durable unit, but lacking the (frankly very useful) additional range of the x4s.

The failure to be able to get the lobes anywhere near fully retracted is a real problem. I have one X4 so far (a .4) and the lobes rotate maybe 60 degrees at most. That extra bit at the end is useful when you need to get the unit out of a real tight placement, and this particular example is a dismal failure in that respect. I predict we'll see these things stuck frequently, albeit with the lobes well short of totally rotated.

Gunkiemike wrote:That extra bit at the end is useful when you need to get the unit out of a real tight placement, and this particular example is a dismal failure in that respect.

Ah, good point. Hasn't been a problem for me, but I'm just one person. Maybe some QC issues on the glue?

What's causing yours to not retract all the way? I'm wondering if its the nylon trigger wires hitting each other like it was on mine...

Anyways, my #2 Yellow C3 gets stuck for that reason ALL of the time. A simple pry with the nut tool always pops it right out. It usually requires two hands and can take a some time if you have to take.

I too had issues with my .4 x4 not fully retracting. As others have been saying, the issue has to do with the Kevlar trigger cords and an excess of glue. The sloppy glue job made the cords inflexible at their attachment to the lobes, making it impossible to fully retract the unit. I scraped the excess glue off the attachment point and aggressively flexed the Kevlar trigger cords around until they had softened up, and voila, the cam retracts just like it should.

So if any of you are having issues with your dual axle x4s, try removing the excess glue and softening that part of the Kevlar trigger cords, it worked wonders on my .4 at least.

John Gehrig wrote:What's causing yours to not retract all the way? I'm wondering if its the nylon trigger wires hitting each other like it was on mine... Anyways, my #2 Yellow C3 gets stuck for that reason ALL of the time. A simple pry with the nut tool always pops it right out. It usually requires two hands and can take a some time if you have to take.

A photo would be helpful...unfortunately I'm not around my gear at the moment. The way the "wires" are glued to the lobe is the problem. The wires (at their attachment points) are glued in a way that restricts their rotation as the trigger is pulled. Rather than making a straight line from the trigger to the lobe, the wires have a slight bend in them at the lobe attachment point...enough so that the lobes can only retract ~80% via a trigger pull, but 100% if you retract the lobes with your fingers, or if you were to stuff it into a crack when you're gripped and on lead. The cam may only be cammed 90% in such a situation, but if the trigger only works for 80% of the range, you're basically screwed.

This beta testing y'all are paying to do is awesome. In a year, the X4 is going to be great.

I did the exact same thing as Trevor, scrapped of the excess glue and it seems to work well now. I cant show the problem at its worst, maybe somone else has a picture?

Here's a picture to show what I'm talking about
I scrapped off most of the glue but theres still a bit left here.
This glue causes a kink to form in the cable which interferes with the other trigger and causes the cam to retract only 80%.

X4 .4 Glue Probem

Here's my .5 X4. Just got it recently and saw the issue on here with the trigger wires. You guys are scraping this wire to get full extension? I'm thinking of sending this thing back as I can only get it 75% pulled.

Trigger issue X4 .5

Thanks for the photo, David. That's exactly how mine behaved. Even after scraping most of the adhesive off, my cam lobes don't quite fully retract. Not super stoked on the X4s...

Bummer BD .4 X4 lobe retraction. This is after scraping off the glue that was restricting the range of motion in the first place.

As a follow-up, here's a photo of my .4 X4. This was taken AFTER scraping off as much glue as I could without damaging the "wires." In this photo, I am squeezing the trigger VERY hard. It would be highly unlikely that anyone would squeeze the trigger with this much force in the field. Regardless, the extra couple of unusable millimeters that result make me REALLY cautious about placing these cams anywhere where they may walk (and get fixed). While this unusable portion is at the point of "overcamming," it also prevents a second from being able to use the cam's full range of motion to clean a piece.

a more interesting question is how do you replace the trigger cables yourself?

with aliens they make a kit that you can do it, same with C4s, etc ...

hmmmmm

;)

Same way you do for mastercams ;)

Revan,

A shop worker and I did side by side comparisons of X4's and C4's from .3-.75.

For both of us C4's clearly won in the .4-.75 range because of trigger action, range, and lack of floppyiness so to speak.

.3 felt better as an X4. .3-.1 have metal trigger wires allowing for the full range of motion.