reducing pack weight for alpine climbs.

I recently returned from a overnight trip to the Grand and the question I have is what have others done to reduce pack weight to make there climb more enjoyable, and set them selves up for success.

What I had in my pack
2 pound sleeping bag
thermarest pad
black diamond bivy bag
thermal top and bottoms and spare pair of socks
fleece jacket
warm hat and gloves
hardshell jacket and pants
rappel gloves(probably not needed)
headlamp
multitool
lighter
harness with two belay devices and prussic cord for autoblock
2 cordalettes and 5 locking beaners
some double and single length slings
small toothpaste/toothbrush
helmet
2 nalgene bottles with water
food was 3 pbj on bagels, bag of jerky, some jellybeans, trail mix and power bars.
Also had a 60 meter rope.

My friend carried the rack if wondering where gear is on list.

Any suggestions for how to make this better and lighter, this was my first alpine climb and I did learn some things but open to hear from more experienced people.

So what was the pack weight with all that ? Seems pretty trim to me ...

I'd lose the second belay device and belay gloves , but that's like a pound at most.

I bet some people will say lose the sleeping bag, bivy , and pad, but I'd keep it , a decent nights sleep is worth it .

Maybe do some squats and get stronger ?

It really depends on the climb, the style you want to do it in and the weather forecast. That being said, here are some pointers.

The pack itself can make a big difference. You can use a 1 to 2 lb pack that is totally reasonable for an over-nighter.

Bring a light wind breaker instead of a hardshell if the forecast looks good. If there's a chance of bad weather I'll bring some hardshell stuff but I usually don't climb in bad weather in the summer.

Fleece jackets range a lot in weight. Not sure what you have but a Patagonia R1 hoody or equivalent rocks. The hoody means no hat. I like an R1, a synthetic vest or pattagucci nano and a wind layer with a hood for good weather summer climbing. Super versatile.

For a pad, I'd suggest either a thermarest neoair or z rest if you're putting directly on rock.

Consider an MSR Dromedary instead of 2 nalgenes.

Forget the second belay device and learn to tie a munter.

Again if the weather looks good, wear all your clothes to bed and don't bring a bivy.

It's good to start with too much and figure out what you don't need. Looks frickin' good for your first alpine climb. Rock on!

Oh and cut off a strand of minty floss next time instead of the toothbrush and whole tube of toothpaste.

Just some suggestions...

Don't overnight. Go car to car. Travel much lighter and reach the climb "warmed up".

If you DO overnight...

Maybe shave some weight by using a Neo-air or similar pad, skip the Nalgenes for a bladder, skip the toothbrush/toothpaste (don't tell your dentist) skip the multi-tool for a lighter knife/razor, use lithium batteries in your headlamp, skip the cordelettes, and a few lockers, skip the extra belay device, use a lighter harness like a BD Couloir, and I'd skip the hard shells (it is still Sept)..

My 2 cents

Replace your nalgenes with a lightweight compressible option such as platypus bottles. Definitely get rid of the second belay device(learn to belay with just a single locker, body belay, hip belay). Belay gloves are actually a very good safety device and should be only a few ounces anyway. Switching out one of your layers for a lightweight compressible down jackets(many of them pack down to the size of a baseball and weigh under a pound). Toothbrush replaced with a "wisp" or any of those disposable things, of forget it all together. You could go lighter on food by packing more trail friendly foods but real food is so much better. Also not sure about your rope but I specifically have a smaller 9.3 rope just for alpine which saves a few pounds over a more standard 10.0+ ropes. Otherwise you look pretty good.

"Don't overnight. Go car to car"

x2

I'm no hardman but here's a few suggestions:

Forgo the ThermaReat for a 3/4 length foam pad. Throw your pack or rope under your feet.
If the forcast is good leave the bivy sack.
For an overnighter spare thermals aren't needed IMO. At most a spare set of socks to sleep in.
Switch the fleece for a lightsynthetic puffy. Lighter and warmer.
Go with a light softshell over raingear, again check forecast.
Skip the rappel gloves. Add an extra locker if you need more friction.
Fresh Lithium batteries in a lightweight headlamp. Leave spare batteries at home.
Leave the multi-tool for a small light knife. Or better yet a lite folding box cutter.
2 belay devices?? Loose the extra and usea munter if you drop it.
Use wire gate carabiners. And only need 3 lockers max.
It's one night, leave the toothpaste and brush at home.
Use one quart platypus bags. Over 3/4 lighter than a Nalgene!
Did you eat all your food? If not you just carried extra weight for no reason. Granted I like having a little extra in case it takes longer than I think.

Just remember to think of the cost of dropping some of those nice-to-have options. How will you feel about the 1 pound savings if an unexpected storm comes in and you don't have a hard shell? (And, more importantly, will you be able to keep yourself safe without the extra gear?) Some people find the weight savings well worth the chance of discomfort while others don't.

Although the small things can add up, I believe my biggest weight savings come from "The Big Three": Pack, tent and sleeping bag. Also, if you won't need a full rope, consider carrying just 100', depending on the climb.

I recently read some reviews of the ultralight tents and they sound great. One pound or less - sounds good to me (they use your trekking poles for...uh, poles).

A 3/4 length foam pad is definitely the way to go, lighter than a Therma-Rest, just as warm and they never leak.

If you've got a choice of sleeping bags, bring the lightest one that will keep you warm at the expected overnight temperatures. You'll sleep better in a bag that's just right than in a heavy bag that's too warm. If the temperature drops lower than you planned on, put on your hat. Keep in mind that a bivy sack will help retain heat and block the wind.

What kind of headlamp did you have? Would a smaller, lighter one have served you as well? Did you bring spare batteries? Lithium batteries last a lot longer than alkalines, weigh less and work better in the cold. If you're confident that the batteries will last, leave the spare batteries at home.

Keep the toothbrush, ditch the toothpaste for an overnighter.

I recently was in the Winds with a climbing party of 3. Packed for climbing/camping/eating for 6 days. I carried all my personal gear plus the rack. The other 2 carried personal gear plus a half rope each.

My total pack weight was 30lbs on the dot plus the shirt/shoes/shorts I wore hiking. This was total weight for climbing & camping & food!

The other guys in the group had packs between 45-55lbs, and we passed people on the trail that had up to 70lb packs.
The trick is to get rid of unnecessary weight or pick something else that does the same thing but is multi-functional and lighter. Examples are ditching the Nalgene for a reused water bottle, swapping out the belt on your backpack, weighing clothes and picking the lighter option, etc. Every ounce adds up.

This was my setup:

Shelter: MLD grace tarp, MLD serenity net, Titanium stakes
Sleeping: EE RevelationX 20+ quilt, ridgerest SOLite trimmed. Planned on wearing my clothes to bed but was too warm even without them on.
Pack: BD shadow 45 with everything taken off. Replaced frame with my sleeping pad rolled up inside, replaced the hip belt with the waistbelt from my climbing harness (remove leg loops and store those inside pack)
Cook setup: home made alcohol pop can stove, Heineken pot, Reflectix coozy, mini Bic lighter, 7oz of HEET fuel in small reused waterbottle.
Water Filter: Sawyer squeeze filter on Smartwater water bottle.
Clothing: Rab Pulse rain jacket, Stoic Hadron down parka, OR echo shirt, petersheadnet mosquito headnet, Sunday afternoon hat, Stoic Thrive shorts, Montane featherlite pants, Underarmour boxers, Stoic wool socks 2 pair, 5.10 guide tennies.
Other Things: BD distance poles, Zpacks stuff sacks/bear bag, Photon LED light JB welded to an alligator clip as headlamp, 2oz first aid kit, iPhone as camera, sun glasses, toothbrush/paste, Advil PM, small bottle of DEET, TP, hand sanitizer.
Climbing Gear: harness, 5.10 Anasazi slippers, cordelette + lockers x3, ATC+locker, Chalk bag, Trango piranha knife, BD nut tool, petzl gloves, 1.5 sets of nuts, mastercams #0-3, BD C4 #0.5-3 with doubles of #0.5-2, full set of WC rockcentric hexes, 10 alpine draws, 2 double length alpine draws.

I was very comfortable, slept well, had all the gear I needed for climbing, and even ate well. Here is a picture of the weeks worth of goods packed up, but not stuffed in tight. I didn't even compress my quilt and the bag isn't cinched down at all. You can imagine how the other guy's packs looked. And yes they all carried their own personal gear just like me. The only thing we split out was climbing gear and we split it evenly.

light is right, shiver all night.

All of the above plus:
Ditch the nalgenes and use recycled pop bottles or platypus. They're better than camelbaks.
Carry only one belay device and an HMS biner, use the Munter hitch if needed.
Torso length foam pad from Gossamer Gear.
BD couloir harness instead of regular?
Lighter pack, look at the North Face Vertos or a Gossamer Gear.
Take a 1 pound quilt instead of a sleeping bag.

Assuming you aren't pushing your climbing limit, ditch some gear. My trad rack is BD 2, .75, .5 and two small MasterCard half set of nuts and six tripled draws. Add two lockers and a belay device and a wire gate with prussiks.

DrApnea wrote:Pack: BD shadow 45 with everything taken off. Replaced frame with my sleeping pad rolled up inside, replaced the hip belt with the waistbelt from my climbing harness (remove leg loops and store those inside pack).

Wow, you just changed my world with this statement. I didn't even know the leg loops came off.

I love this thread! I just did the Grand and now I'm doing exactly what the first poster is doing--trying my best to find ways reduce weight. Unfortunately we got stuck carrying the bear canister up to moraine camp since all the other campsites were full (car-to-car was not an option since we had ppl coming from sea level), so I definitely feel your pain. Please keep the suggestions coming!

Unless you need to carry all your overnight gear up a 5th-class climb it seems like your pack's already pretty light, but here are a few more suggestions.

If you've got cash to spare you could invest in an ultra-light Western Mountaineering bag. Some of their bags are barely 1lb.

A Thermarest Prolite XS or S weighs only 10oz or so.

A Black Diamond HiLight tent sleeps two and weighs under 3lbs. That's less than two average-weight bivy bags, and it provides better protection.

I have a western mountaineering summerlite, it's about a pound.

It is definitely a minimalist bag, it feels tight on me , not much wiggle room , and I'm 5'10 , 170.

Add that to a thermarest prolite 3/4 air pad, and a Bibler bivy sack , and my big three is about 5 pounds .

See if you can find the Wild Things/john Bouchard article "lite is right" pretty much cuts to the chase

Forgot about that bear canister. That alone is reason to skip the bivy.

Anfarwal - I am a sea level dweller my self, but optimal hydration, good rest, and an easy pace with a light pack makes going car to car work (I just got back recently from Tetons myself) don't assume its only for locals.

As most have pointed out, the devil (weight) is in the details...the same item of gear from different years or manufacturers can be night and day in weight. A few years ago for a Rainier trip I was trying to do the same thing - cut weight. I bought essentially identical items, most cases from same manufacturer even...just upgraded 5-10 year old equip and shaved over 5 lbs with just newer materials, etc

Another consideration in the Tetons or RMNP or similar areas is water weight. How much do you carry and how do you refill. I was squeamish at first about refilling w/o treatment from local sources but have done this with no issue for years and at least a couple Rangers swear they do the same - using a smaller collapsible and refilling enroute as needed....If you're willing to roll the dice, that can shave several pounds off right there. Just gotta plan ahead and verify your source is still active/available (lower saddle for instance).

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had bad luck with this?

yea i'd rather carry a few extra lbs in real food, a real sleeping pad (i'm a horrible side sleeper so i deluxed it with the BA Q-Core SL), and a light tent (use trekking poles) so i can sleep well, eat well, and kick ass the next day. You can sub a lighter sleeping bag if you bring a puffy insulating jacket as opposed to a fleece. I definitely do not skimp on the rack wherever i go unless its truly below my limit.

Iodine / Chlorine tab's are lighter than a filter.

Learn to anchor with rope and dump one or both anchor cord. 1 belay device is sufficient / person

I rarely take hardshell pants. hike in shorts and use softshell with a fresh DWR coating otherwise

you did pretty well. My first backpacking trip was in europe and i was schlepping 60-70 lbs for a few weeks.

My big pack weighs close to 5lbs itself so the suggestion to look for a lighter pack is a good one. Obviously unless money is no issue not everyone can carry a woven dyneema pack

Did the grand traverse a while ago and one of the things we did to save weight was to use a single half-rope instead of a full size line. It saved considerable weight and size in our packs.

Whenever we climbed on it we folded the rope in half with the leader tying into both ends. Making our single 60m half-rope work like two 30m twin ropes.

Whenever it was hard enough that we didnt want to simul climb, we just pitched it out every 30m.

Worked nice for us in that situation, though definitely not always the best solution.