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8/14 & 8/20: Public Forums re: Resolution Copper and Land Exchange

Original Post
Tony @ AZClimbersZone.com · · AZ · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 100

FYI, two public forums are coming up in August:

8/14: Community Forum Regarding Tailings, 6:00 PM at the Magma Club
8/20: Representatives Gosar and Kirkpatrick to discuss land exchange at the Superior Junior High School

Excellent opportunities to voice your opinion and gain more information on the issues surrounding the land exchange.

copperarea.com/pages/resolu…

Concerned Climbers of Arizona · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0

FYI, two public forums are coming up in August: 8/14: Community Forum Regarding Tailings, 6:00 PM at the Magma Club 8/20: Representatives Gosar and Kirkpatrick to discuss land exchange at the Superior Junior High School Excellent opportunities to voice your opinion and gain more information on the issues surrounding the land exchange.

copperarea.com/pages/resolu…

Just be careful about buying into the highly biased, pro-mine spin that inevitably accompanies any of Mila Besich Lira's "articles."

kirra · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 530

thanks for posting guys! ~ yeah she's got a pony or 2 in the race

Silverbelt Tuesday, Jul 16th, 2013 By: Ted Lake

Superior — It has been announced that {person mentioned above} is a candidate in the Tuesday, Aug. 27 Superior Town Council recall election. Superior businesswoman, local community leader, a newspaper writer and a backer of the (name of copper mine goes here).

The recall is against incumbent Town Council member Soyla Kiki Peralta, who has been a major outspoken opponent of the proposed $6 billion Copper Mine near Superior.

go KiKi go !!!

Tony @ AZClimbersZone.com · · AZ · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 100

FYI: The forum on Tailings on the 14th (tomorrow) has been moved to the Superior Junior High School Auditorium

Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

On Aug 20 Rep. Gosar and Kirkpatrick will be in Superior. That is a good time to show support. Please arrive PM me for more info.

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
manuel rangel wrote:On Aug 20 Rep. Gosar and Kirkpatrick will be in Superior. That is a good time to show support. Please arrive PM me for more info.
It might be important to keep in mind that any forums or so-called "public" meetings that are being held on behalf of RCM at this point are not any part of a NEPA process; they are Public Relations efforts on behalf of RCM and its legislation before Congress.

While they may be taking in input (gathering intel in the eyes of some), they do not have to adjust any of their plans according to the public input as they might under a NEPA process.

Also, it's noteworthy to observe that the "greenfields" they mention at times with respect to the tailings do not in any way mean that they will be providing a "green" solution and the tailings site along Highway 60 will likely lack the color green since little plant life can take hold on tailings without much, much effort and expense. Perhaps a good question is whether this sort of "greening" is a requirement of their plan?

It is my understanding that "greenfields" in the mining industry usually apply to areas that have not been disturbed by mining activity; in this case with respect to the north Superstition Vistas location, relatively intact native Sonoran Desert land.

Lastly, keep in mind that it is now known that RCM's planned "underground" mine will manifest itself as a Meteor Crater sized pit on the surface that will consume at least part of the Oak Flat parcel which was specifically set aside as a recreational area almost 3 generations ago. In effect it is not your grandparents type of "undergound" mine.

Just my view.

Fred
Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
manuel rangel wrote:On Aug 20 Rep. Gosar and Kirkpatrick will be in Superior. That is a good time to show support. Please arrive PM me for more info.
Since the forum is imminent:

From RCM's website with respect to tailings.

"Studies are ongoing and [RCM] continue[s] to explore [their] options. During this process, [RCM is] examining two possible sites for tailings disposal:a greenfield site on 12 sections of land on the far northern end of what’s known as Superstition Vistas, and a brownfield location known as the Pinto Valley mine in Gila County. [12 sections = 7,680 acres of land, ie., 12 square miles] RCM faq 8 20 13

So, the impact on public land amounts to not only the loss of the dedicated federal recreational lands associated with Oak Flat (2,400 acres) but the additional public State Trust land in Superstition Vistas, 7,680 acres, for a total of 10,080 acres probably at minimum given that little will probably be developed around a tailings site.

By the way, many off-road enthusiasts view the State Trust lands in the SV area as recreational lands for them as anybody who has seen the trailers of ATV's, etc., in that area can attest.

So, RCM "gives" 5,400 private acres and "gets" at least 10,080 public acres if they were to use the SV lands for tailings.

By the way, it's my understanding that the "brownfields" solution they discuss related to the Pinto Valley mine has become very problematic and less likely to be an option.

Just my view.

Fred
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100
AZ central

Grateful that we have made it clear a lot of AZ rock climbers do not support the current proposed land exchange.
Thank you every one that plays a part!

Linda
Geir www.ToofastTopos.com · · Tucson/DMR · Joined Jun 2006 · Points: 2,751
Lindajft wrote: AZ central Grateful that we have made it clear a lot of AZ rock climbers do not support the current proposed land exchange. Thank you every one that plays a part! Linda
Marcy got the chance to talk with Rep. Kirkpatrick about this and expressed her disapproval.
Linda White · · maricopa, AZ · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 100
Geir wrote: Marcy got the chance to talk with Rep. Kirkpatrick about this and expressed her disapproval.
Awesome
Grateful for your unity!
Ben Beard · · Superior, AZ · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 215

Too bad some people ran away C&M, maybe he would have explained greenfield for people that don't understand the term.

Adjust their plans? The plan of operations is coming soon, that will initiate the NEPA process, and more public input will be sought.

Not your grandparent's mine? What was your grandparent's mine, or your group's mine?

Block caving was formalized and pretty much designed in Arizona, in "our" grandparent's time.
While it is unfortunate, especially for people who actually live in Superior, that Pinto Valley is now a long life operation, the Copper Triangle is losing 2 of 3 mines in the Globe-Miami area in the next two years, so good for Pinto for going strong.

Just my opinion

Fred AmRhein wrote: It might be important to keep in mind that any forums or so-called "public" meetings that are being held on behalf of RCM at this point are not any part of a NEPA process; they are Public Relations efforts on behalf of RCM and its legislation before Congress. While they may be taking in input (gathering intel in the eyes of some), they do not have to adjust any of their plans according to the public input as they might under a NEPA process. Also, it's noteworthy to observe that the "greenfields" they mention at times with respect to the tailings do not in any way mean that they will be providing a "green" solution and the tailings site along Highway 60 will likely lack the color green since little plant life can take hold on tailings without much, much effort and expense. Perhaps a good question is whether this sort of "greening" is a requirement of their plan? It is my understanding that "greenfields" in the mining industry usually apply to areas that have not been disturbed by mining activity; in this case with respect to the north Superstition Vistas location, relatively intact native Sonoran Desert land. Lastly, keep in mind that it is now known that RCM's planned "underground" mine will manifest itself as a Meteor Crater sized pit on the surface that will consume at least part of the Oak Flat parcel which was specifically set aside as a recreational area almost 3 generations ago. In effect it is not your grandparents type of "undergound" mine. Just my view. Fred
Manny Rangel · · PAYSON · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 4,788

Rep. Gosar mentioned jobs again and again. I believe he's shilling for RCM and calling this a jobs bill.

He even called up Arizona history with the four C's: Cattle, Citrus, Copper and Cotton. The mainstays of Arizona's economy.

Has anyone seen any Citrus groves in Arizona lately? Right, we evolve. Mining/Copper can go the way of the Citrus grove just as easily.

Like Ben said, AZ miners are innovative. Let's see some innovation and compromise. Or mining will follow Citrus.

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
Ben Beard wrote: . . . maybe he would have explained greenfield for people that don't understand the term. Adjust their plans? The plan of operations is coming soon, that will initiate the NEPA process, and more public input will be sought. Not your grandparent's mine? What was your grandparent's mine, or your group's mine? Block caving was formalized and pretty much designed in Arizona, in "our" grandparent's time.
I was pretty clearly speaking about Oak Flat; the traditional Magma Mine workings were what was conventionally understood by the general public to be an "underground" operation, ie., one with little surface disturbance or impact. Many activities did and continue to coexist and coincide on Oak Flat and adjacent lands.

RCM's proposal to cave the area into a Meteor Crater sized pit is very different from what the grandparents in the area know as an underground mine for the specific area.

The term "greenfield" as applied to the relatively intact 12 sections of land in the Superstition Vistas area along the US 60 (scenic byway) was injected into the discussion by RCM. It's fairly clear what they mean from their discussion on their website but maybe you can provide some more insight as to the technical aspects?

Regardless, is there any doubt that the loss of accessible public recreational lands will quadruple (from 2500 acres at just Oak Flat to over 10,000 acres) if the SV site is used?

Fred
Concerned Climbers of Arizona · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Ben Beard wrote:The plan of operations is coming soon, that will initiate the NEPA process, and more public input will be sought.
Only if the land exchange legislation doesn't go through, of course. The current RCM land exchange legislation will allow RCM to bypass virtually all of the NEPA mandated environmental requirements that pertain to public lands.
Ben Beard · · Superior, AZ · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 215
manuel rangel wrote:Rep. Gosar mentioned jobs again and again. I believe he's shilling for RCM and calling this a jobs bill. He even called up Arizona history with the four C's: Cattle, Citrus, Copper and Cotton. The mainstays of Arizona's economy. Has anyone seen any Citrus groves in Arizona lately? Right, we evolve. Mining/Copper can go the way of the Citrus grove just as easily. Like Ben said, AZ miners are innovative. Let's see some innovation and compromise. Or mining will follow Citrus.
Looks like Superior again proved that the vote by the former town council members against the RCM project did not represent the overwhelming majority of residents. Kiki Peralta, lost her recall election by a 1-2 ratio. This follows the ousting earlier this year of 2 other council members who were apart of the decision to go against RCM. The town attorney/manager is also leaving.
Concerned Climbers of Arizona · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2013 · Points: 0
Ben Beard wrote: Looks like Superior again proved that the vote by the former town council members against the RCM project did not represent the overwhelming majority of residents. Kiki Peralta, lost her recall election by a 1-2 ratio. This follows the ousting earlier this year of 2 other council members who were apart of the decision to go against RCM. The town attorney/manager is also leaving.
Unlike the pro-mine Superior town council member (Hank) who was forced to resign after being convicted of felonious action related to his votes in favor of the mine. It's no coincidence that only pro-mine individuals have actually been indicted and convicted of crimes.
Ben Beard · · Superior, AZ · Joined Jun 2009 · Points: 215
Concerned Climbers of Arizona wrote: Unlike the pro-mine Superior town council member (Hank) who was forced to resign after being convicted of felonious action related to his votes in favor of the mine. It's no coincidence that only pro-mine individuals have actually been indicted and convicted of crimes.
What is your point? What are you implying that it is no coincidence that the "only pro-mine individuals have actually been indicted and convicter of crimes"? Are you just mad that a record voter turnout took down Kiki?
Isn't the State AG looking into the actions of the Town Council, led some of the former members, going against state law?
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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