BD X4, ongoing real-world review (will update over time)

Picture request: I'd like to see head-width comparison photos of the x4s with appropriate sizes of c3s and master cams, specifically the blue .3 x4 lined up with a yellow c3.

shoo has a picture of the red .1 next to a green c3, but the expansion range of the green c3 is closer to the larger yellow .2
shoo also has a picture of the yellow .2 next to a (i think) yellow master, but the yellow master is between .3 - .4 expansion range.

He is comparing smaller x4s to larger competitors, and already the x4s are slightly wider. I'm guessing that if you line up the x4s next to the appropriate other cams, it will show the x4s being noticeably wider?

I recently got a set of X4s and replaced my mastercams on my rack with them. I've been loving the X4s. I always thought mastercam cables were a bit too stiff and the cable on the X4s seems perfectly flexible.

I've also found the gray size is frequently used - it is between the yellow and orange mastercam and gets placed ALOT. Before I tended to have tipped out yellow mastercams in these placements.

I carry double #0.75 and #0.5 camalots and replaced one set of them with the X4 version of those sizes and they're like butter in placements. Love 'em.

So +1 from this guy.

pokey wrote:Picture request: I'd like to see head-width comparison photos of the x4s with appropriate sizes of c3s and master cams, specifically the blue .3 x4 lined up with a yellow c3. shoo has a picture of the red .1 next to a green c3, but the expansion range of the green c3 is closer to the larger yellow .2

The c3s have virtually identical head width, as do the smallest of the two x4s. You'll have a to wait a few weeks for a picture (hard to do this while at campsite), but what you see is pretty much what you get.

pokey wrote:shoo also has a picture of the yellow .2 next to a (i think) yellow master, but the yellow master is between .3 - .4 expansion range.

It's a yellow/blue offset, so roughly the same size, ish.

pokey wrote:He is comparing smaller x4s to larger competitors, and already the x4s are slightly wider. I'm guessing that if you line up the x4s next to the appropriate other cams, it will show the x4s being noticeably wider?

Not really. I eyeballed the sizes, which I think is honestly more reliable than what the manufacturers state for claimed range. The x4s are slightly wider than the mastercams, and the c3s are still the narrowest for roughly equivalent ranges.

pokey wrote:Picture request: I'd like to see head-width comparison photos of the x4s with appropriate sizes of c3s and master cams, specifically the blue .3 x4 lined up with a yellow c3. shoo has a picture of the red .1 next to a green c3, but the expansion range of the green c3 is closer to the larger yellow .2 shoo also has a picture of the yellow .2 next to a (i think) yellow master, but the yellow master is between .3 - .4 expansion range. He is comparing smaller x4s to larger competitors, and already the x4s are slightly wider. I'm guessing that if you line up the x4s next to the appropriate other cams, it will show the x4s being noticeably wider?

.3 X4 vs yel c3 - the yellow c3 is more narrow (the 3 cams on the c3 are just about the same width as 3 cams on the .3 X4. If you want to nit pick the C3 cams are SLIGHTLY wider than 3 cams on the X4.

Yellow Master Cam is more narrow than the .3 X4 but WIDER than the .4 X4

By your experience, do you guys feel that the yellow .2 covers the full expansion range of the green #0 C3, as claimed by the specs? I'm thinking the .2 looks a little too large to contract down even smaller than the green C3 like its supposed to.

Eric and Lucie wrote:Sure, Aliens (or any other cam, for that matter) can be kinked. And NO, Aliens DO NOT do that.

YES THEY DO.

CCH Aliens, Fixe Aliens, Totem Aliens, all of have a bend in them.

And yes they come from many different years, different levels of use, and from all three manufactures.

Anyone had any issue with the internal springs yet? I'm just wondering

No problems here.

As a general update, I will be doing a final summary review in the next few weeks after I catch up on work. Anyone who has specific questions should ask them now.

Anyone climb on the Double Axle .4-.75 X4s yet?

I've climbed on the stacked axle cams (.1-.3), and they are great. But my new .4's lobes only retract ~80%. Seems like the nylon trigger doesn't work well... Anyone else have this problem?

Unfortunately, I wont be able to actually climb on it for a while due to an injury. I imagine this would cause the cam get to stuck alot.

Looking forward to the update, shoo.

Ryan Nevius wrote:Looking forward to the update, shoo.

Thanks for the prod. Hopefully I'll have it some time this week. Work and a bit of climbing has taken priority. In other news, the .2 finally got fallen on, completing the set.

Final thoughts:

These have now been with me for a few months and have been put through a fair amount of beating in North Conway and Squamish granite. They’ve all taken falls (and held just fine, thank you very much). I think it’s fair to say that I have a good sense of their durability and overall performance by now, enough so that I can probably call this a final review. The following is simply going to be final thoughts, confirmation, or correction of previous statements, with some additional durability info thrown in.

I’ll cut to the chase and give you the bottom line. Are these the “best” general use small cam out there right now? Answer: Sure, by a bit, probably.

This isn’t a satisfying or very specific answer, but that’s the way it goes. These are DAMN nice cams. They stack up really nicely against anything and everything else out there. They do basically everything very well. The reality is, though, that if I already had a set of either of either aliens/basics or mastercams I’d probably be about as happy.

Performance:
All of what has been said previously is still true. They are easy to use, reliable, and predictable. I don’t really have much to add. My partners and I have fallen on all 5 now, and have not popped. Unfortunately, I can’t generalize or compare to other cams had they been in the same placements, but you can at least take that to mean that they don’t explode, so that’s nice to know. The flexible stem is great, as is the trigger sheath. What you see is what you get.

As mentioned earlier, the larger sizes are surprisingly nice. The choices get a little clearer here against aliens and master cams, as the double axle is a very nice feature. Against the c4s, personally, I have one of both of .4 and .5, and I wouldn’t change that for the world. The x4s have narrower heads and a more flexible stem, but the c4s are easier to place and just have that bomber feeling. No clue which I would choose if I could only have one.

Warning, speculation ahead: There may actually be something to the stacked axle thing. It’s not that the cams will place substantially differently. It’s simply that there is an increased tolerance once placed compared to a single axle design. Small cams are sketchy, almost always. This gives a touch bigger margin of error. Aliens increase their tolerance with soft metal at the cost of durability, but the x4s don’t have to compromise to achieve something similar. Again, this is speculation, but I am fairly convinced that if there is one single reason to get the x4s, it is this additional margin of error.

Durability:
No big issues for me. After some heavy use, I can say that the kinking at the thumb loop swage is mildly annoying, but not a big issue. It doesn’t really happen very much on its own, even when fallen on. I could see it happening more with weird deep placements in horizontals, but I never really encountered that. I do, however, now have a perma-kink at the head of the blue one (picture pending) from a fall when placed perpendicularly to the wall (i.e. not in the direction of fall). I also have this head kink on my offset mastercams from similar situations, so no real comparative difference.

I never noticed any substantial binding of the trigger due to dirt/sand/grit, but I was using these on mostly clean granite. Maybe people climbing in sandier or dirtier areas might have a better idea.

There was a bit of discussion in this thread about the potential for minor lobe mushrooming to result in the lobes rubbing against each other due to the tight tolerances between lobes. While I’ve experienced this quite a bit with aliens (one of the reasons I don’t have any), I did not notice this at all with the x4s. The easy explanation is that the soft metal on the aliens is more likely to deform compared to x4s. Mastercams don’t have this issue, as the lobes don’t really come in contact with each other.

Overall, the mastercams still win in the durability category, just a hair ahead of the x4s due largely to the minor stem tweaking issue. Aliens are last by a long shot, as you can effectively destroy one in one fall.

Value:
Totem basics and the x4s clock in at $70 retail. Fixe Aliens come in $10 more expensive, mastercams and c3s $10 less (credit to pfwein for the correction). There is a bit of extra built-in value for the x4s if you consider that fewer cams make up a slightly larger range. I personally prefer the x4s over both the mastercams and the aliens at this point, but it's really up to you what you value most.

And that's all, folks.

Thanks, shoo!

indeed, thanks for the info shoo.

Thanks for all your detailed testing and information! Much appreciated. (not that I really needed an excuse to buy a set...)

shoo wrote:Value: Totem basics, mastercams, and the x4s all clock in at $70 retail. Fixe Aliens come in $10 more expensive, c3s $10 less. There is a bit of extra built-in value for the x4s if you consider that fewer cams make up a slightly larger range. I personally prefer the x4s over both the mastercams and the aliens at this point, so the value judgment is a bit of a no brainer to me, but this comes down to personal preference. And that's all, folks.

Mastercams are $60 retail, not $70. I prob wouldn't let $10 sway my purchasing decision, unless I was completely undecided.

pfwein wrote: Mastercams are $60 retail, not $70. I prob wouldn't let $10 sway my purchasing decision, unless I was completely undecided.

Corrected, and credited you. Thanks!

just on a note for prices for canadians at mec

mec.ca/shop/climbing-cammin…

mastercams/TCUs/Powercams - $54, but if you buy 4 or more at MEC you get 10% off so $49

C3s- $55

X4s - $65

Aliens - $77

what i would find interesting is if anyone has tried falling on them in limestone or desert sandstone ... is the caming angle the usual camalot 14+ deg?

;)

Thanks for the details Shoo, good stuff.

shoo wrote:Aliens increase their tolerance with soft metal at the cost of durability, but the x4s don’t have to compromise to achieve something similar.

Whether or not soft metal is a good thing, I would argue the X4 design (and to a lesser extent, the master cam) prevents the use of soft metal like the aliens. On the other hand, there's nothing preventing the use of harder lobe metal in the basic alien design (you may need to optimize the cam angle for the harder metal).

I wouldn't be surprised the metal used on the X4 is harder than the equivalent size C4 (they sure have very different finish). The smaller C4s (0.3-0.5) already have the lobe warp tendency (where the lobes sort of bend perpendicular to the axle), which I speculate is caused by the thin double axle (each lobe is supported by one axle) and soft (compared to metolius) lobe material. X4s in those sizes would get destroyed using the same material since the lobes are thinner. The smaller stacked axle X4s would also require hard metal to support the lobe structure since a chunk of each lobe is gutted out for the spring.