training for soloing

I've been finding that I'm enjoying and doing lots of long easy solo routes, with not more than a 5.6 section or two.
So I'm wondering about what I should start or emphasize (or de-emphasize) in my training.

One thing I've been doing lots of is Down-climbing on top-rope belay, including down-climbing overhangs and friction slabs.

I'm feeling like "contact" finger strength ought to be important -- the ability to dynamically latch onto a hold immediately on first contact with it -- because if a foothold breaks, it could save my life.

High Steps - developing strength and flexibility for these. Seems like might be key for getting my foot up onto a positive hold, in a situation where I might be willing to make the move on a lower slopier foothold if I had a well-protected lead on rope.

also I do ...
- almost never lead anywhere close to my limit in Trad, or even Sport.
- almost no bouldering outdoors or indoors.
- not much indoor climbing (though I used to do lots).

Thanks for more ideas about this,

Ken

All the things you're saying make sense, but I really don't think you need to spend too much time training for 5.6 routes. What I mean to say is, physically, you don't need to worry about contact strength or anything like that.

Along with downclimbing a lot, I'd think you should start doing those things that you don't ever do. Leading (onsighting) at your limit teaches you to relax and preform under pressure, and bouldering will get you used to climbing w/o a rope.

It sounds like working on strength and technique is there and youre not climbing terribly difficult routes (so it sounds + this statement is relative). How much "mental" training do you do? Do you ever put effort into gaining more awareness? Do you meditate, work on breathing aka get to know yourself, the details about yourself.

My 2 cents is turn EVEN more inwards than you have (we do have vast universes within us) and become even more intune with your body and mind.

Im sure theres a ton of technique and strength training to be had but for soloing for me it usually comes down to my understanding (knowing why im feeling the way I do, why am I thinking the way I am, etc in the moment) and connecting with my body (sensitivity to each finger/toe, hand eye coordination up to par? or did I have an alcoholic drink the night before and maybe im slower than usual, etc) and mind.

sounds corny but its what I do before I solo, I non-biasly assess myself because I solo routes I already know im strong enough to do cleanly and have the technique down for the route.

enjoy man and be careful!

Well, if you must solo, you aren't far off.

Unless you are Honnold or something, you'll be on easy routes. Just consider every single move you do on a route. If you come upon a move that you know you wouldn't be able to do in reverse, that is where you stop and you either traverse to something easier or you downclimb to the ground.

Most people are more comfortable on cracks.

I can sum up my post: learn to become comfortable while UNcomfortable.

find comfort in uncomfort. everywhere you go, everything you do if you find yourself becoming or you are already uncomfortable LOVE IT. Learn about yourself and your relationship to uncomfort. why do you feel like you do? why do you think like you do? do you portray a pattern when you reflect on your past experiences? if so get to know the pattern (habit) and THEN you can decide if you like it/want it or if you want to rise above (transcend) it.

thats the #1 "thing" climbing has given me: the ability to find comfort in uncomfort.

The Stoned Master wrote:I can sum up my post: learn to become comfortable while UNcomfortable. find comfort in uncomfort. everywhere you go, everything you do if you find yourself becoming or you are already uncomfortable LOVE IT. Learn about yourself and your relationship to uncomfort. why do you feel like you do? why do you think like you do? do you portray a pattern when you reflect on your past experiences? if so get to know the pattern (habit) and THEN you can decide if you like it/want it or if you want to rise above (transcend) it. thats the #1 "thing" climbing has given me: the ability to find comfort in uncomfort.

I don't solo, but I think a simpler way to put it is that you want to design your mental training (which in the end is also physical in its own way) to not end up on the downhill side of this curve

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerke…

Write a note to loved ones just in case. Trust me it is really hard for someone dealing with a loss to process the "why" after the fact when the soloist isn't around to explain it. This might also clarify for yourself your reasons for soloing and I would assume (I don't know because I don't solo) give you some confidence that you have already thought through these things....thus putting them out of your mind. Probably you want to be squarely in the moment soloing and not thinking about the "what ifs" The mental has to be more important than the physical for soloing I would imagine.

This seems like a total mental thing, get those chakras in order. Namaste brah.

I don't solo unless I've been climbing every day for awhile. when 5.7 or 8 feels like walking down the sidewalk (takes me a week or two to get there) go for it.

i think the most important training for soloing is doing that parkour stuff. you need to know how to land on your feet and absorb the impact with a summersault after falling from about a 100 feet up.

Railsplitter wrote:Dan "Dan The Man" Osman had it right: Best know your ability and have the route in hand, otherwise ya splatter like a melon when ya hit the rocks below. I also like that quote from Dirty Harry: "A good man always knows his limitations." I'm no heller soloist like Dan The Man or Dean Potter or Alex Huber or Steph Davis or ANY other heller soloists I've failed to mention, but I've soloed heaps of crags and peaks, mostly at the moderate level yet still with gnarly exposure. I also do plenty of on-sight soloing, or used to when I traveled the Lower 48 in a 10-ton RV (tractor only, a 40-ton RV with the loaded wagon hooked), and I can tell ya that it's NOT all subjective (i.e. about you) when it comes to soloing, there are plenty of objective hazards to consider as well: quality of rock, friable choss, rockfall, bats roosting behind flakes, snakes resting upon ledges, stinging insects whose hives lie right upon your chosen route (don't ask me how I know this), wind velocity if wind is a factor, temperature gradient if you're on a long solo, the whole nine yards. I've soloed local crags and crags nationwide, but I've always taken those factors into consideration. In Vedauwoo, weather conditions can change in a big ol' hurry, and if you don't take that fact into consideration, you can find yourself freezing or dodging lightning strikes as you scurry for shelter. In the Mohawk Mountains of SW AZ, and also on Picacho Peak (an island in the sky, it is radical), the rock is friable and you hafta test EVERY HOLD as if your life depended upon it, which it does... this goes for every other venue too, but ESPECIALLY in this region. If a hold is so sketchy or dicey that you can't reverse your move, as the one hand said, you need to alter your route slightly or back off all the way. There's no shame in it, you can chalk it up to experience and you'll live to solo another day, 10-4??? When it comes to bagging peaks or pulling some heller crag solo, desire can be a subjective hazard... I took college courses in Geology and Physical Geography, so I know those peaks and crags aren't going anywhere in MY lifetime, they'll still be there when I return to tackle 'em, if I ever do. Don't fall into that mental trap of thinking you HAVE TO TOP OUT OR SUMMIT, it can always be done another day when conditions rise or appear to thwart your attempt, 10-4??? I mean serious factors here, NOT tramloads of tourists in Yosemite (or wherever) breaking your solo concentration. This is one reason why I LOVE soloing in remote areas on BLM land, if I choke I'll die for certain, but there's not one friggin' tourist or wanker in sight, and if I die I'll die a clean death, feeding the varmints as I enter the next world. F___ those ridiculous boneyard fees, I want my bones to be scattered under the stars, my only legacy a body of work on the stinking Internet, LOL. That reminds me, you can see a heller crag I soloed by visiting the Photography Forum at oausa.net , just scroll downward till you see "Random outdoor adventure shots" by Railsplitter (my handle back in the days of paid tourism, you'll see what I mean if you check out that thread, there are some cool climbing wagon shots in there as well). Anyway, that crag above Horseshoe Meadow, not far from Lone Pine, Ca, was so beautiful that I HAD to pull an on-sight solo. Weather was PERFECT, and so was my tribute solo to a deceased climbing partner (he died a weird and untimely death out in American Samoa), poor dude died at 41 about a decade ago. You can also check shots of that whole scene by visiting truckforum.org and going to the General Truck Forum: there you'll see a thread titled "Got Chrome??? How about Armor???" On Page 11 of that thread (I think it's Page 11), you'll see primo shots of that whole climbing venue... place is UNREAL, between the Alabama Hills, Horseshoe Meadow, Mt. Whitney's East Face, yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh, yeah, to the OP who mentioned downclimbing? Just remember this: downclimbing is ALWAYS more difficult, as one can't see the footholds as well, and one's descending weight affects dicey holds differently... many solo climbs can be walked off or whatever, but downclimbing is an important, nay, a VITAL SKILL which will help you if you do any serious soloing. The hand who already told you to TEST EACH HOLD AND CONSIDER WHETHER YOU CAN REVERSE THE CLIMBING MOVE OR SEQUENCE, THAT HAND KNOWS ABOUT SOLOING, YEAH??? It ain't for everybody, and if ya ever feel like it's NOT a good idea, follow your instincts and go bouldering or whatever the f___, because the life you save will probably be YOUR OWN, 10-4??? Enough said, just check that crag photo above Horseshoe Meadow, the crag is one of the FINEST I've ever soloed, and even R.C. (Ron Collins, a climber who put up a shitload of routes in the Alabama Hills, and possibly elsewhere) thought it was a cool on-sight solo, even if it was ONLY 5.8 at the crux... LOL. Plenty of exposure to kill ya quickly, if that's your thing, but otherwise PRIMO. Ya know, many people diss this sorta climbing, but a well-executed free solo can be tremendously uplifting, a most intimate tryst with nature to be cherished above all material bullsh!t, and THAT'S NO LIE... those heroes at the top know it already, and you will too IF you go about it the right way. That's my piece, I'm done here, remember that I will always be a better small craft sailor than a climber: I just like being in primo wilderness areas when I don my shoes and chalkbag. Oh, yeah, that reminds me: check Page 6 or 7 of that "Got Chrome??? How about Armor???" thread I mentioned to find shots of a little-known CLIMBER'S PARADISE on Mt. Livermore, TX... that place is APESHIT, and that ain't no lie, there are access issues but I pulled my recon with no reference to that bullsh!t. ADIOS, and GOOD SOLOING, HAND!!!!!

ummm, cool story bro.

slim wrote:i think the most important training for soloing is doing that parkour stuff. you need to know how to land on your feet and absorb the impact with a summersault after falling from about a 100 feet up.

+1 for parkour. Show some style and do a back full on the way down.

i think wind standard deviation and frequency spectrum are more important than mere velocity.

Snort some crank like Railsplitter and you'll be good to go for soloing lol

Railsplitter wrote:Dan "Dan The Man" Osman had it right: Best know your ability and have the route in hand, otherwise ya splatter like a melon when ya hit the rocks below. I also like that quote from Dirty Harry: "A good man always knows his limitations." I'm no heller soloist like Dan The Man or Dean Potter or Alex Huber or Steph Davis or ANY other heller soloists I've failed to mention, but I've soloed heaps of crags and peaks, mostly at the moderate level yet still with gnarly exposure. I also do plenty of on-sight soloing, or used to when I traveled the Lower 48 in a 10-ton RV (tractor only, a 40-ton RV with the loaded wagon hooked), and I can tell ya that it's NOT all subjective (i.e. about you) when it comes to soloing, there are plenty of objective hazards to consider as well: quality of rock, friable choss, rockfall, bats roosting behind flakes, snakes resting upon ledges, stinging insects whose hives lie right upon your chosen route (don't ask me how I know this), wind velocity if wind is a factor, temperature gradient if you're on a long solo, the whole nine yards. I've soloed local crags and crags nationwide, but I've always taken those factors into consideration. In Vedauwoo, weather conditions can change in a big ol' hurry, and if you don't take that fact into consideration, you can find yourself freezing or dodging lightning strikes as you scurry for shelter. In the Mohawk Mountains of SW AZ, and also on Picacho Peak (an island in the sky, it is radical), the rock is friable and you hafta test EVERY HOLD as if your life depended upon it, which it does... this goes for every other venue too, but ESPECIALLY in this region. If a hold is so sketchy or dicey that you can't reverse your move, as the one hand said, you need to alter your route slightly or back off all the way. There's no shame in it, you can chalk it up to experience and you'll live to solo another day, 10-4??? When it comes to bagging peaks or pulling some heller crag solo, desire can be a subjective hazard... I took college courses in Geology and Physical Geography, so I know those peaks and crags aren't going anywhere in MY lifetime, they'll still be there when I return to tackle 'em, if I ever do. Don't fall into that mental trap of thinking you HAVE TO TOP OUT OR SUMMIT, it can always be done another day if conditions rise or appear to thwart your attempt, 10-4??? I mean serious factors here, NOT tramloads of tourists in Yosemite (or wherever) breaking your solo concentration. This is one reason why I LOVE soloing in remote areas on BLM land, if I choke and peel I'll die for certain, but there's not one friggin' tourist or wanker in sight, and if I die I'll die a clean death, feeding the varmints as I enter the next world. F___ those ridiculous boneyard fees, I want my bones to be scattered under the stars, my only legacy a body of work on the stinking Internet, LOL. That reminds me, you can see a heller crag I soloed by visiting the Photography Forum at oausa.net , just scroll downward till you see "Random outdoor adventure shots" by Railsplitter (my handle back in the days of paid tourism, you'll see what I mean if you check out that thread, there are some cool climbing wagon shots in there as well). Anyway, that crag above Horseshoe Meadow, not far from Lone Pine, Ca, was SO beautiful that I HAD to pull an on-sight solo. Weather was PERFECT, and so was my tribute solo to a deceased climbing partner (he died a weird and untimely death out in American Samoa), poor dude died at 41 about a decade ago. You can also check shots of that whole Lone Pine scene by visiting truckforum.org and going to the General Truck Forum: there you'll see a thread titled "Got Chrome??? How about Armor???" On Page 11 of that thread (I think it's Page 11), you'll see primo shots of that whole climbing venue... place is UNREAL, between the Alabama Hills, Horseshoe Meadow, Mt. Whitney's East Face, yadda, yadda, yadda. Oh, yeah, to the OP who mentioned downclimbing? Just remember this: downclimbing is ALWAYS more difficult, as one can't see the footholds as well, and one's descending weight affects dicey holds differently... many solo climbs can be walked off or whatever, but downclimbing is an important, nay, a VITAL SKILL which will help you if you do any serious soloing. The hand who already told you to TEST EACH HOLD AND CONSIDER WHETHER YOU CAN REVERSE THE CLIMBING MOVE OR SEQUENCE, THAT HAND KNOWS ABOUT SOLOING, YEAH??? It ain't for everybody, and if ya ever feel like it's NOT a good idea, follow your instincts and go bouldering or whatever the f___, because the life you save will probably be YOUR OWN, 10-4??? Enough said, just check that crag photo above Horseshoe Meadow, the crag is one of the FINEST I've ever soloed, and even R.C. (Ron Collins, a climber who put up a shitload of routes in the Alabama Hills, and possibly elsewhere) thought it was a cool on-sight solo, even if it was ONLY 5.8 at the crux... LOL. Plenty of exposure to kill ya quickly, if that's your thing, but otherwise PRIMO. Ya know, many people diss this sorta climbing, but a well-executed free solo can be tremendously uplifting, a most intimate tryst with nature to be cherished above all material bullsh!t, and THAT'S NO LIE... those heroes at the top know it already, and you will too IF you go about it the right way. That's my piece, I'm done here, remember that I will always be a better small craft sailor than a climber: I just like being in primo wilderness areas when I don my shoes and chalkbag. Oh, yeah, that reminds me: check Page 6 or 7 of that "Got Chrome??? How about Armor???" thread I mentioned to find shots of a little-known CLIMBER'S PARADISE on Mt. Livermore, TX... that place is APESHIT, and that ain't no lie, there are access issues but I pulled my recon with no reference to that bullsh!t. ADIOS, and GOOD SOLOING, HAND!!!!!

Arrrrrgh, matey! Ken ye do us all a favor an nex' time you be lootin laptops on th high seas snatch un with a return key an throw a couple bleeding paragraphs in there?

PS You wouldn't happen to be She-who-must-not-be-named's English teacher?

heller ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ ¶ 10-fooooooo

LSD. Lots and lots of LSD.

Before during and after. Did you die? Who can tell? Who am I? There is no I. Pretty colors. The rock is breathing and so am we. There is no rock. There just is.

Railsplitter wrote:I didn't make any ridiculous claims

Sure you did. You claimed to have gone to college. Given that you write like a 3rd grader who skipped their Ritalin, that seems like a pretty ridiculous claim...then again, maybe you went to a SEC school. Or barber college.

Yawn... yeah, whatever.

The Stoned Master wrote:How much "mental" training do you do? Do you ever put effort into gaining more awareness? Do you meditate, work on breathing aka get to know yourself, the details about yourself.

No I don't do anything like meditation.
Perhaps oddly, it had not occurred to me that there was a special mental aspect for Soloing. Maybe that's because I'm not going close enough to my Top-Rope or Following climbing capability. Or maybe I "just don't get it" somehow.

The guy who got me into my most recent and most serious round of climbing was very into meditation, and recommended that I try it -- but he never suggested it would help my climbing. Actually his story was that he started meditation in hope that it would bring to the rest of his life the focus that he'd first found in climbing.

I can believe that meditation helps some people climb better, but from reading lots of interviews and stories and books about climbers, seems like an awful lot of climbers way better than me do just fine without any special meditation. I have not heard of any comparative scientific studies that show that meditation helps a significant percentage of people climb better.

In the past year I read a whole book, written by a rather smart climber, which was all about the mental aspects of climbing. It was full of lots of plausible suggestions (including meditation). But it had nothing about Soloing, and while it was big on the presumed remarkable mental control of top climbers, it had very little evidence that doing special mental training exercises or meditation had much to do with it.

My personal guess is that in the overall general population there's a wide range of capabilities in the areas of mental control and focus and in "staying cool" under certain kinds of stressful situations. Maybe people at one end of the spectrum on some of those areas are likely to benefit from meditation or other special mental exercises. But maybe people at the other end do just fine without them.

I assume that climbers tend to be out near the tail of the distribution for the general population -- but that even among climbers there's a range of mental control + focus capabilities. I'll guess that climbers who feel they are a bit short on that ... decide not to try soloing - or give it up quickly - (? or some other result ?)

I'd be happy for pointers to some evidence. Or a different way of thinking about the apparent lack of evidence.

Ken