Lumpy Ridge Fatal Accident

Man, it doesn't get much heavier. Wading into a discussion like this is like the activity itself, what I may think about it might not be what you think about it, maybe vehemently so.
Does that mean we don't get to talk about it? Too soon?
No, there are respectful diagnoses and discussions about accidents that are informative, cathartic, and add perspective to what exactly is on the line in our sport.
There are also ugly, unfortunate, and disrespectful dismissals of the individual involved in the accident as somehow deserving of the outcome due to ex post facto analysis by egos searching for justification that it could not, would not, ever be them.

RIP Corey Stewart.

"The life of the dead is placed in the memory of the living."

Marcus Tullius Cicero

Merlin wrote:Discussing this stuff merely serves to inflame passions. Learning on your own and from mentors is the way to go. The best way to avoid accidents is to 1: be lucky and 2: survive the experience gaining process. Talking about other people's ill luck doesn't do much. Case in point, the goofy flame thread over the guys that died in the Loveland Pass avalanche that went dark when Lou Dawson wrote an analysis confirming what people were getting flamed over pointing out. If you do stuff long enough you'll know people that have died doing the same. It happens. Condolences to the friends and family of the deceased.

You CANNOT attribute all climbing accidents to "luck".

People can actually learn FIRE HOT without sticking their arm into the flame.
We can learn from example- by watching, reading & listening.

(Positive) Community discussion can serve to prevent future accidents. Take the recent Tito tragedy... it was more than LUCK that resulted in such a terrible accident.

That being said, deepest condolences to all.

Discussion- NOT FINGERPOINTING BLAME OR FLAMING- makes a positive impact in our community

I don't understand why there's controversy. As Stich pointed out, this is not the memorial forum, it's the accident forum, which exists for a reason.

People should be respectful and not cast judgment, but discussing and learning from the details of accidents is exactly what this forum is for.

turbotime wrote: You CANNOT attribute all climbing accidents to "luck". People can actually learn FIRE HOT without sticking their arm into the flame. We can learn from example- by watching, reading & listening. (Positive) Community discussion can serve to prevent future accidents. Take the recent Tito tragedy... it was more than LUCK that resulted in such a terrible accident. That being said, deepest condolences to all. Discussion- NOT FINGERPOINTING BLAME OR FLAMING- makes a positive impact in our community

People learn by experiencing things for themselves. Maybe some small percentage will take a forum post and change their behaviour but, in my experience, it's not many people.

Go ahead and reasonably explain to a stranger why what they are doing is dangerous to themselves or others. Do it ten times. Record the responses.

When I was your age I had the same opinion as you. These days I keep my mouth shut when I see stupid unless it might impact me. People, in general, view any form of perceived negative feedback as criticism.

Does anyone know what route he was on?

Shawn Mitchell wrote:I don't understand why there's controversy. As Stich pointed out, this is not the memorial forum, it's the accident forum, which exists for a reason. People should be respectful and not cast judgment, but discussing and learning from the details of accidents is exactly what this forum is for.

Ideally, yes. Sadly, the frothy MP mix of conjecture, egocentrism, and anecdote do not a valuable accident discussion make.

Merlin wrote: People learn by experiencing things for themselves.

If this were true, ANAM wouldn't be published as it wouldn't be necessary.

I don't want to learn through experience "how not to die in a climbing accident" by dying.

I can't do anything about the disrespectful comments made on this forum. But, I can review the facts surrounding the accident and make adjustments if applicable so my family hopefully, doesn't experience the pain of loss.

There have been several analyses of accidents on mp.com that have been beneficial for me as a climber. I appreciate we have a forum from which to discuss and learn.

Condolences to friends and family of the fallen climber.

Mike McHugh wrote: Ideally, yes. Sadly, the frothy MP mix of conjecture, egocentrism, and anecdote do not a valuable accident discussion make.

Bingo! Unfortunately, thoughtful, respectful discussion is the MP exception these days, rather than the rule. I must say, though, that so far everyone has kept it above the belt on this post. Well done!

Well, I know for sure that at least 2 people in favor of the discussion here have lost friends or lovers to climbing accidents. I hope that puts it in perspective.

I have lost friends to climbing accidents too. I've also personally fucked up and have been forthcoming with the details online (when I was ready).

As such, let me add my voice to the chorus of those calling for pertinent details of the accident to be disclosed to the public by those in the know. I, for one, would appreciate it. Sometimes you'd be surprised at what can be learned. More than you realize.

GO

Dave Meyers posted saying he recovered gear from the Batman Pinnacle. Maybe they know what route.

Does anybody actually know about the accident or is this just goin to turn into another Mt Project, dead end, rant/bitch forum post?

LAW... No, this is not your average MP deal.... all are being respectful, for now.

Ranting and bitching are on hold for now....

LawHous wrote: Does anybody actually know about the accident or is this just goin to turn into another Mt Project, dead end, rant/bitch forum post?

I understand the question in the first part of your post, but the last part of your post sounds a lot like "Mt Project, dead end, rant/bitch forum post."
Seems we could eliminate 1/2 of that problem by not contributing to it.

So, I May be to blame here for the tangent this accident forum has taken. When i initially voiced my objections to the discussion of tragic events I desired to allow the family and close friends of a lost individual the privacy and personal information they hold to be theirs. To keep sacred from those who always crop up on this site without compassion discussion how they would have been smarter, or better and avoided the calculated risks a person took, or not made their 'rookie mistake'. Afterall, hindsite is 20/20.
I do not wish to see people pained with public statements that may tarnish or cloud their memories.
I can agree in the invaluable information that is to be gained from learning from the mistakes of others... Afterall, if you dont know your history... your doomed to repeat it... fact. It is only my opinion, that IN A THREAD DIRECTLY TIED TO A SPECIFIC PERSON, voiced by those who knew them, that details would be disclosed if those people so desired, and the analysis of the accident could occur with some anonymity (or not if those involved choose to disclose) at a later date, and perhaps in a scientific-objective, rather than personal-subjective manner.
-that is all

goingUp wrote:tigerclaw, i dont think thats important, especially on this site, there is no need to nitpick and find blame, or even a reason to understand the loss and tragedy., climbing is dangerous, we all know and understand the risks. The fact that this as well as many other accidents that have hapened (especially recently )should help us to be more aware of our surroundings, redundancy and need to check our safety gear, placement and judgement... without passing the latter onto the survivors of lost loved ones. Im am sorry for this loss., -Marc

This mentality contributes to these accidents happening.

There is no good time/place. The time is now. Let the family and friends grieve elsewhere if necessary. The internet isn't a wake anyway.

Kevin Heckeler wrote: This mentality contributes to these accidents happening. There is no good time/place. The time is now. Let the family and friends grieve elsewhere if necessary. The internet isn't a wake anyway.

Bullshit. It is not an all or nothing game. We should be able to discuss what happened and still show deference to feelings of the family.

It is called having empathy. You should try it sometime instead of acting like a dogmatic asshole.

That aside, I offer my sincere condolences to Corey Stewart’s friends and family.

NC Rock Climber wrote: Bullshit. It is not an all or nothing game. We should be able to discuss what happened and still show deference to feelings of the family. It is called having empathy. You should try it sometime instead of acting like an asshole.

Agreed...I really try to avoid alot of these MP debates, but I'd like to point out that every night on the news they detail the events that led up to a particular accident. This is even to the point of providing minute by minute updates, grilling neighbors and spectators, getting expert opinions, police reports etc, and in no way is that considered in bad taste. Most certainly I do not change my behavior because of these reports, which is in stark contrast to a climbing accident report.

In comparison we are a community that is invested in not only the current well being, but also the future state of its members. Personally I find I can be empathetic while being informed, such as in the case of the Boulder canyon accident. Perfect example of an accident that has immediate beneficial information. Quite often these accidents have a direct correlation to the climb, not just the behavior of the climber.

Regardless my utmost condolences to the friends and family of Corey.

Um.... this is the accidents forum. The entire purpose of this section is to get down to the nitty gritty. If someone is coming to this thread to grieve they are the ones looking in the wrong place, not those of us interested in learning from the climber's mistake(s).

Just as an FYI for those looking to learn more about accidents and the causes, you can download the ANAM publication for about $9: shop.americanalpineclub.org…
It's got more accident reports than any sane person would want to read about.

Vaughne wrote:Just as an FYI for those looking to learn more about accidents and the causes, you can download the ANAM publication for about $9: shop.americanalpineclub.org… It's got more accident reports than any sane person would want to read about.

+1

I believe club members get it for free too... ;-)