best way to train for ~50 move sustained overhanging route
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Other than the obvious (get on the route and work chunks of it and figure out the moves) what is the best way to train for a very sustained pumpy overhanging route if you don't have direct access to it whenever you want. The majority of the holds are edges and pinches and there aren't any real GREAT resting jugs...only places where I can maybe cop a short rest (but it would give diminishing returns to stay on any of the "rests"). |
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I'm not really a high level climber either. But I'll give my opinion on strategy: If you don't already have great technique... work on that. Here's a good vid that has helped me a lot. |
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Leave a fixed rope on it |
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^ ahahaha ;) |
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question: does ARC need to be done at the specific angle the climb is at to be most beneficial or does it not matter? So if all I had access to is my overhanging wall (which I find difficult to stay on continuously longer than 4 minutes) could I use a local vertical wall (boulder) to traverse back and forth doing ARC? Would this benefit me on endurancey/pumpy routes??? |
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You need to figure out how close you are, and build your plan from there. |
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5.samadhi wrote:question: does ARC need to be done at the specific angle the climb is at to be most beneficial or does it not matter?It matters a lot because the percentage of your weight supported by your arms varies by angle. ARCing goes a long way in developing techniques specific to angle as well. Since you can do the moves (I assume) you don't need any more power, so drop the max hangs. You need PE, Endurance and Stamina. PE is trained with 4x4s, 6x8s or 1x20s. I like to mix them up to fight boredom. Endurance is trained with ARCing. Stamina is trained with CIR, Continuos Intensity Repetitions, 12-15 repetitions of a flash grade route with full recovery between routes/problems. This trains the all-day ability to give good goes on your goal route. |
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brendan, perfect informative response, thank you. |
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5.samadhi wrote:For the stamina building exercise you would basically do laps on a route (downclimb or lower off?) straight in a row with no rest (so say do 12 laps then rest and move on to another flashable route). Each repetition gets full rest in between, so you only do 12-15 repetitions in a 2 hour session. The first 5 should feel too easy, the second 5 tiring, the third 5 really hard. |
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I'm skeptical that there's a 5.12-ish route that has ~50 consecutive moves with no worthwhile rest. Do you mind sharing hte name of the route in question? I would bet there are rests in there that you haven't found yet, or perhps you've found you're unable to recover at the so-called rests, and could benefit a great deal from improving your resting skills. Resting effectively on steep terrain takes practice, just like any other aspect of climbing. If you haven't found any rests, perhaps you should watch or talk to some other climbers to see if/where they are resting on the route. A rest stance may feel desparate at first, but with rehearsal can eventually provide complete recovery. |
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Hey Mono thanks for responding! You're right its not that there are no rests (I should have been clearer) its that the rests seem to give me back less than I get from them...staying on the "rests" seem to sap more energy than they give unfortunately. Its chainsaw massacre at the Red (so obviously I have seen 5.12+ climbers on it and resting on every single hold that I feel desperate on ha!). In fact I saw a woman climb it before I thretched my way up the other day and she climbed it beautifully, stopping along the way and chalking/shaking out...she claimed her fitness was "down" (down if she was climbing 5.13 last season maybe!). |
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Brendan N. (grayhghost) wrote: Each repetition gets full rest in between, so you only do 12-15 repetitions in a 2 hour session. The first 5 should feel too easy, the second 5 tiring, the third 5 really hard.Ah, OK, so on my bouldering wall I could do 12-15 repetitions of a "route" (say up-down-up-down climb) with rests in between to feel recovered enough to go for another rep. The first half dozen will feel do-able then I will start to feel the pain through the last half dozen. Would the "routes" be shorter than Mono's prescribed 20-30 move circuits (he says do four of these in a training session) or could they be 20 moves but EASIER moves than the 20-30 moveX4 workout? How often could I do CIR training (say 2 or 3 days in a row???) |
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5.samadhi wrote: Would the "routes" be shorter than Mono's prescribed 20-30 move circuits (he says do four of these in a training session) or could they be 20 moves but EASIER moves than the 20-30 moveX4 workout? How often could I do CIR training (say 2 or 3 days in a row???)I've done CIR workouts using routes and boulder problems just to keep things interesting. The most important aspect is keeping the intensity high enough that you are training, but not pushing over into unrecoverable destruction. This ~80% level pushes your strength, technique and volume optimally. How often you do CIR would depend on how well you recover, only you can gauge that. |
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Where do you fall at on Chainsaw? Most leaders that are close fall trying to recover so they can clip the bolt just below the chains where the holds get a little smaller. |
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Here is the beta. Sprint to the rest at the bolt after the chain draw, cop a shake at the flat shelf, and run to the top. It might be tempting to rest at bolt two, but don't. You have only been climbing for 15 easy feet. |
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what about the rest below the clipping hold of the bolt before the chain draw bolt? I need to bump my hand up to left hand crimp from the "shelf" to be able to even clip the draw! I'm thinking the shelf could be a good rest??? Then sprint through the section to the next bolt (like you say) and rest and then go for anchors. So this would mean there would be two rests that if I perfected my technique I could hang out awhile on and recover some. |
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5.samadhi wrote:Hey Mono thanks for responding! You're right its not that there are no rests (I should have been clearer) its that the rests seem to give me back less than I get from them...staying on the "rests" seem to sap more energy than they give unfortunately. ... So, if I train with 20 move circuits (which is possible by up/down climbing on my wall) and do four reps of that...is that enough for the entire day???I think you're sort of missing the point on training for resting/recovering. It's not the same to climb, get off the route, and rest as it is to rest in the middle of a route. You can actually train just that, and exactly that. Something I used to do (and should do again) which I found very, very helpful is this: get to where there's a hangboard with some feet behind it, or perhaps a few jugs next to a few large crimps on an overhanging wall. Alternate hands on the hangboard without ever getting off of it. Rest one hand while the other is working, then change, and keep changing. When you feel strong, you can switch to the crimps. When you feel tired, you switch to the jugs. Still tired? Move to better feet. Even better, you can do this exercise with a step stool in front. Higher on the stool, you have more weight on your hands, and lower feet, less weight. This can give you 5 or 10-minute sessions of training your resting ability. It helped me a lot, especially for climbing at the Red. |
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shotwell wrote:Finally, where are you warming up for your attempts? Getting solidly warmed up prepares your body to fight on an endurance route. It can be pretty tough for climbers breaking into 5.12 to warm up at the 'lode. Maybe you need to pick a different 5.12a to get used to the difficulty.(cough) Burlier's Bane (cough). Seriously, all great beta here on the training. Ultimately, for Chainsaw, especially if this is one of your first 12a's, the beta is just get really comfortable on THAT route. It's definitely more of an endurance final exam, compared to most other 12a's at the RRG, and most ARCing or even 4x4's that you will try in the gym will still leave you desperate on the route if you have not gotten comfortable with hanging out on steep, not-perfect holds. So just put your time in on that route. When you send it, you'll be well on your way to pushing into the 12b/c range at the RRG. |
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I love this forum after re-reading everybody's posts in this thread. You all are great to help with advice. |
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Seriously, I've been taking notes... Good thread. |
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I'm not convinced that Chainsaw is 50 moves. The business end of it is like 5. |