Do aggressive shoes help a lot?

doligo wrote: Brian, I respectfully disagree...

Dolgio, How are you? Let me know what kind of shoes I need to buy to climb 5.12b. Cost is no object. ;-)
Brian

By aggressive shoe, most people mean downturned toe and perhaps with asymmetry too with the aim of putting as much "power" onto the big toe.

What kind of .12b, Brian? Friction/thin-face 12b nightmare in NH may best be climbed with a different type of shoe as an overhanging sport route at NRG/RRG, especially if .12b is your limit. Just because some pro like TC warms up on a .12b in his approach shoes it does not mean approach shoe is the best shoe for that climb.

S. Neoh wrote:By aggressive shoe, most people mean downturned toe and perhaps with asymmetry too with the aim of putting as much "power" onto the big toe. What kind of .12b, Brian? Friction/thin-face 12b nightmare in NH may best be climbed with a different type of shoe as an overhanging sport route at NRG/RRG, especially if .12b is your limit. Just because some pro like TC warms up on a .12b in his approach shoes it does not mean approach shoe is the best shoe for that climb.

I think you missed my point. My post was "tongue-in-cheek." I could climb 5.15 if it wasn't for my comfortable non-agressive shoes.

Brian wrote: I think you missed my point. My post was "tongue-in-cheek." I could climb 5.15 if it wasn't for my comfortable non-agressive shoes.

And Chris Lindner did 5.13 in Sanuks. We should all feel like pussies I suppose...

Brendan Blanchard wrote: And Chris Lindner did 5.13 in Sanuks. We should all feel like pussies I suppose...

No. We should all start climbing in Sanuks. Imagine the possibilities!

Brendan Blanchard wrote: ...The Instinct VS just came out in the last couple months I believe, not sure how they are though. I may try them for fit if I get a chance, because I am curious.

I tried on the Instinct VS the other day, and I liked them a lot. Definitely gonna pick up a pair. I wear a size 44 street shoe, and the 42.5 Instinct VS felt just about perfect. I might be able to squeeze into a 42, but not without some serious elbow grease. The shoe felt a lot like the Solution (which isn't too surprising, just looking at the shoe), but it didn't seem quite as aggressive. It also fit a lot wider in the forefoot. I have pretty wide feet, but the Instinct VS felt perfect. Hugged my foot like a glove, without any pressure points or ultra-uncomfortable foot smushing. The heel also felt very secure and snug. I have't climbed in them as of yet, but the fit was amazing.

Yes, good shoes make a huge difference.

The example of Tommy is laughable, he will change into a brand new pair of shoes even for separate pitches on the same route.

Brian, I respectfully disagree. If you paid attention to the film footage of Dawn Wall - TC actually switched into Miuras on the crux facey pitches. I like my TC Pros - they edge like nothing, but they're not very sensitive.

PatrickV wrote:Yes, good shoes make a huge difference. The example of Tommy is laughable, he will change into a brand new pair of shoes even for separate pitches on the same route.

I guess you are referring to this ...... LOL I skimmed this last night, and it was even MORE laughable the way I accidentally read it, "TC actually switched into Miuras on the crux" ... like he changes shoes mid-pitch!

AND...besides, if I wore too tight, mean, agressive shoes I would have no excuse when I fall. At least now I can blame it on my shoes.

That Tommy switches shoes all the time on a long route is no secret for quite a while. Here is Matt Samet's write up of Tommy's FFA on Magic Mushroom, specifically:

Along the route, Caldwell has left four caches in place...He's also stashed a pair of La Sportiva Miura rock shoes, new but slightly broken in...Caldwell estimates that the legwork in the chimneys puts 250 pounds of force on his feet, quickly rendering the shoes soft and imprecise; he wants to start the hardest leads with a fresh pair.

Any athlete (almost everyone on this site is at most a wannabe, but that's another discussion) that strives for maximum performance will pay attention to his/her equipment. Of all the equipment, the right shoes probably have the most impact on free climbing performance. Will you climb harder all of a sudden with a pair of downturned shoes? Probably not: downturned shoes take certain techniques. Do they impact the performance in the hands (well, feet) of someone who knows how to take advantage of them? Absolutely.

I would also like to point out that downturned shoes do not have to fit so that they hurt.

I have worn my testarossas for multipitch trad on routes where footwork was important. (i do take them off at belays).

I can jump up and down in my Solutions.. which i find a bit too downturned for some stuff.. much better when it's steep.

anyway.. shoes are for climbing.. not for standing in all day. it amazes me that people trash the crap out of their shoes walking around in them in the dirt.

Anna.. shoe demo's are great too if your gym has them. I think the Solutions would be too downturned. Muiras or testarossas are a great compromise. If 5.10's fit you better then Anasazi velcros or Arrowheads would be similar.

doligo wrote: Brian, I respectfully disagree. If you paid attention to the film footage of Dawn Wall - TC actually switched into Miuras on the crux facey pitches...

Dolgio,

I just happened to be re-watching the 2011 Reel Rock film of Caldwell climbing the Dawn Wall and on pitch 7 the first 5.14 pitch and on pitch 12 the crux pitch he clearly has TC Pros on his feet, not Miuras. Shoes don't make that much of a difference. Some sure. Don't drink the Kool-Aid. See you at the Gunks.

Haha, Brian, funny that you resurrected this thread. It's been a while since I saw that piece on Dawn Wall, but I remember TC switching into Miuras for some pitches. We can all argue all day that a good climber can climb anything in the same shoes, but the fact is that climbing shoes are highly specialized nowadays and they can give a subtle edge on different types of rocks. A friend of mine who'd sent hard off-finger and tight-hand cracks at the Creek in Mythos (until he discovered Supermoccs) now wouldn't go back to Mythos for hard red points.

Just like ergonomically-shaped ice tools give us a little edge over straight-shafted tools, or a stiff thick dogbone with a bentgate over a straight-gate biner on a dyneemaa cord, or a good smooth-handling rope over a stiff thick cable, most of our equipment we use today has evolved to give us a little edge when we are climbing above or at our limits - shoes are no different, they can help us progress in our abilities. Maybe my redpoint today that I reach for my performance shoes for, down the road I could warm up on in my sloppy slippers...

One thing I agree with you on though, Brian - TC Pros are an amazing quiver of one shoe.

Brian wrote: Dolgio, I just happened to be re-watching the 2011 Reel Rock film of Caldwell climbing the Dawn Wall and on pitch 7 the first 5.14 pitch and on pitch 12 the crux pitch he clearly has TC Pros on his feet, not Miuras. Shoes don't make that much of a difference. Some sure. Don't drink the Kool-Aid. See you at the Gunks.

disagree with this enormously. agree with reboot said above. out of all of the pieces of gear you have, the shoes will have the most impact on your free climbing performance. hands down, no contest.

My hardest 'send was in my extremely worn out, too big, lace up mad rocks. I think that until you get in to the 12 range it doesn't make much of a difference. The only exception being extremely over hung routes will be slightly easier with aggressive shoes, and a new shoe will edge better than a worn out shoe.

i live in AL and mainly climb in the southeast...land of the steep.

my rule of thumb is on anything slab to vertical i wear an all rounder, my 5.10 anasazi velcros

any time the climb overhangs for a majority of the route i wear my downturned shoes, my 5.10 dragons.

i feel that i can hit almost any style with both of those shoes. wearing down turned shoes on steep terrain allows my to focus more on my technique and i can keep more weight on my feet. while climbing roofs downturned shoes allow you to use your legs like aid hooks and take a huge load off of your arms.

i would say that i boulder/sport climb steep terrain easily 1 to 2 grades harder when wearing down turned shoes. i feel that good technique is my greatest strength and down turned shoes allow me to exploit that fact. i am small for a man and find myself preferring to climb with women...for many reasons, but similar style is one.

if you like to muscle through everything down turned shoes will hurt you and destroy your shoe rubber, but if you're in to perfect footwork, a sharp down turned shoe can be your best buddy.

an example of some of the climbs close by me...im sure people back in the day used non-agressive shoes but most people use downturns exclusively here.

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