rockfall story

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Rockfall is one of the most common forms of injury in the mountains. I've seen it many times..Last week I pulled a hundred pound block off a 5-10 route in LCC. Fortunately my belayer was off to the side, this rock could have killed him. Unfortunately, my rope wasnt and the rock exploded my rope cut it right in two. I was soloing up about 100 feet. I dont know how the rock didnt take me with it but it didnt. go figure must of had some friends with me that day? I got a couple of pieces in and my belayer soloed up some easy 5-5 cracks to get above me (about 20 min) and lowered a rope for me to rap off. All ended well. But I concur anything can happen at any time. I use both ATC and Gri Gri and I will probably evaluate the routes a little closer a pick the most appropriate device. I often carry both on trad climbs they are both useful.

that sucks! glad you weren't hurt worse. Which route was it? This rock is hard to clean, its hard to judge which holds are going to last and which are not. Helmets suck but i have seen too many "good" holds break and people flipping upside down.

Not really pro/against a belay device; more so that given rockfall and continuing to not wear a helmet out of convenience doesn't really offer the entirety of the safety concern.

Fine, the climber might not deck using a belay assisting device; might being the key word. The belayer is still a target, and now you've got a concussive injury that can lead to future problems. Not that helmets will solve everything, but certainly better than not using them.

This is the second thread in a few months were it not for a gri gri there would have been serious injury or death. I'd be interested to know how many accidents there have been with gri gris that failed to auto lock. My partner is convinced it is the most dangerous device ever invented which I just don't get.

last year a group of us were climbing at the jupiter wall at heart creek outside canmore

this is a popular sport climbing place, so you would think that the loose rock gets cleaned pretty often

we were on the right side ... i was belaying my partner, and my friend was belaying his partner a few feet over

his partner suddenly shouts "ROCK!!!" ... then quickly by "LARGE FCUKANG ROCK!!!!"

fortunately we were both belaying under a small overhang ... and the rock tumbled over and landed maybe 10 feet away from us ... it was probably 50+ lbs

would a gri gri save your climber if you got hit? ... very likely .. theres been at least one accident report on RC where the belayer got clobbered by a loose rock on a popular route but the gri gri caught the whipper

of course the rock could cut the rope ... in which case yr screwed anyways unless you use doubles/twins

what device you use is between you and your partner ... but rockfall is a very serious issue in many places ...

even in squamish, which has probably the most "solid" rock around ... a suitcase sized piece reportedly came off the grand wall last week and narrowly missed hitting parties of climbers ... if theres one climb that should have "solid" rock its that one with all the traffic

;)

This is and undeniable safety benefit of the Gri Gri, and I'm amazed so many brush it aside.

Not so much being brushed aside, more that it's not a perfected hands-free device to discriminate the ATC or similar tube alltogether; it's not undeniable. Granted, the helmet isn't perfected for all head & neck injuries either. The message that the helmet still isn't being considered sticks out as a continued problem.

I have done the same to my partner, he was wearing a helmet but I still knocked the shit out of him and would be dead without a gri-gri. Cheers to Petzl!

This has nothing on the dude who shits his pants attempting the off width while hungover. That shits epic.

On a positive note, I'm really glad you're alright! Stay safe broha!

I second the gri-gri life saving thing. A friend of ours was hit by rockfall as she was belaying someone on toprope outside. The guy is alive today because of the gri-gri.

I personally was saved by gri-gri when I was doing some sport climbing and went for a dyno, I missed and jerked my belay partner off his feet so violently he accidentally took his hands off. I would've decked if it wasn't for the gri-gri and he would've been hurt pretty bad as he would've been thrown down into a small pit. instead we both were hovering in mid air dangling.

We needs some real stats:

# of deckings caused by GriGri use

vs

# of deckings saved by GriGri use

It kind of amazes me to think someone would choose a gri-gri specifically to mitigate the risks of rock fall causing a belay failure via head injury, but not be sold on wearing a helmet for the same reason. Keeping control of the brake strand is obviously great, but if you could accomplish that by preventing or minimizing the head injury in the first place, why wouldn't you? Even seemingly mild concussions can cause serious problems for months, and more serious TBIs or even repeated mild ones can mess you up for life.

In my own experience, my helmet saved my climbing partner's life. I was hit in the head as my partner fell, and my helmet kept me (barely) conscious enough to catch his fall. Even with the helmet I was pretty badly hurt, and could easily have been knocked out anyway, but it horrifies me to know that he would almost certainly have died without my helmet- let alone what I might have gone through with a far worse head injury.

Wearing a helmet has always made sense to me to start with, so maybe I am biased, but when you think of it as protecting your partner's life as well as your own, it seems to me it's no longer just a matter of personal preference but one of responsibility to your partner.

I don't intend this to sound preachy, I think it's fascinating how we all come to our own decisions about risk acceptance and mitigation, and just sharing my own perspective.

djkyote wrote: Maybe have a buddy box your ears while you try to keep your brake hand on a rope.

On a side note, you might have just invented the next great advance in climbing style!

Matt N wrote:We needs some real stats: # of deckings caused by GriGri use vs # of deckings saved by GriGri use

You need to add "trained Gri Gri/Cinch users". These devices work when used properly as does the ATC, unless the belayer is knocked out.

Matt N wrote:We needs some real stats: # of deckings caused by GriGri MISuse vs # of deckings saved by GriGri use

Seems like there is a bunch of new devices coming on the market that are basically autolocking (90%+) as well. So it's not ATC vs grigri but vs Jul, clickup, smartalpine, etc.

just a few points

first of all as much as i like the alpine smart, it is not a hands free device, nor is the gri gri, etc ... but there is a certain hierarchy in terms of how much they would hold "hands free" IME

ATC/munter = youre dead

Alpine Smart = depending on the rope, biner configuration and the angle of the belay ... it generally does hold or lowers you slowly ... however the smart CAN slip at a higher rate especially with skinny, slick, supple ropes

gri gri = the thing is used unofficially as a solo device ... pretty good chance youll live

for the "best" rockfall protection in terms of devices, one would belay and rap with a gri gri ... of course one cant use doubles/twins with one ...

the other thing to consider is that on a rap with an alpine smart ... if you do get knocked out, it is possible the device will slowly slip and youll go off the ends of your rope unless u put knots in em

the DAV tested the various devices and you can see the "no hand" (if my german beer drinking skills are correct) breaking force under the Durchlaufwert row ... note the low value for the smart

also note the ratings at the bottom row under Zielgruppe ... A = Beginner, G = Experienced , E = Expert, J = Youth / Children ... the smart and the clickup being the two devices they rated for all levels ...

second ... the DAV did a "study" recently on belay "errors" in the gym ... now there was some discussion on the taco retirement home as to its validity due to concerns about how they classified errors ... so take it with a grain of salt ... but its no worse than "gri gris are the work of the devil" stuff around here ... ill post up the link to the article and the taco geriatric discussion and assume most MPers can make their own conclusions

prevalence DAV of devices ... tubes, HMS, 8s and assited lockers ... HMS and 8s are going the way of the dodos



error rates by device, all error types ... red and orange are "serious"



and heres the kicker on "serious errors rate" ... tube vs assisted lockers ...



DAV article

alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu…

taco retirement home discussion

supertopo.com/climbers-foru…

;)

J Q wrote:I have done the same to my partner, he was wearing a helmet but I still knocked the shit out of him and would be dead without a gri-gri. Cheers to Petzl!

Sounds like your partner would have suffered serious injuries if it weren't for the brain bucket J Q.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure as they say...

I think the guy that pulled the rock onto his belayer should have been prepared to then grab the rope to belay himself. My partner pulled off a large stack of rocks on a newly developed cliff at Shelf once. I was watching closely at the moment and easily stepped to the side with my ATC locked off the whole time.

Stich wrote:I think the guy that pulled the rock onto his belayer should have been prepared to then grab the rope to belay himself.

.....Haha.

Stich wrote:My partner pulled off a large stack of rocks on a newly developed cliff at Shelf once. I was watching closely at the moment and easily stepped to the side with my ATC locked off the whole time.

Please autograph my ATC.