Walkie Talkie Suggestions, Please

Hi all, I'm looking for a pair of walkie talkies to use for longer multi-pitch climbing. I gather that price actually makes a big difference for radios. Any suggestions? Range isn't a huge deal, since my partner and I shouldn't ever be more than 100m apart, but weather-resistant is definitely an issue. Any body have something affordable and reliable? Thanks! Tim

I settled on the CXT235 for their price, size, and battery life (replace the included ones with higher capacity 800 mAh ones – see the Amazon comments). I haven't had a chance to test them TOO much this summer on long climbs, but so far they are woking out pretty well.

My hunch is that they are not very waterproof, but most of these "family" type radios (compact FRS/GMRS) are not. If you really want water resistance, you're going to start getting into the marine class of radios, which are bulkier and more expensive. IMHO, this is perhaps one criteria you might have to loosen up on, but if you do find something that works out, let us know.

FWIW, I also picked up a pair of these pouches which might help a tad in a rainstorm. But they also help secure the radios to your harness if that's what you'd like to do (versus pocket carry or whatever).

Good luck, and prepare for the onslaught of "fuck radios, use rope signals" replies. ;-)

Save your money and replace the gear you left behind.

I've used FRS radios a bit. In order of importance for me:
#1 - Need to be able to hang them around your neck, inside a shirt.
#2 - They need to be water or splash proof.
#3 - Longest range possible. Line of sight is never an issue but around alpine corners is.

climb safe,
Mal

Locker wrote:Fuck those stupid little radios! Use rope signals!

When I saw the title of this post, I was wondering how many posts it would take for a comment like this. I expected 1 and was surprised it was 3. Perhaps I shouldn't be so cynical.

Breaker 1-9 for a radio check.

Locker wrote:Use rope signals!

A relevant Kelly Cordes story:

"Why not Walkie Talkies?

"Do the people who use these also use code names? They should – “Red Squirrel to Weasel One, I am off belay. Repeat, I am off belay!” These things are generally stupid. Too much to go wrong, one extra bulky thing to carry, and, worse, most of the people who use them do so because they don’t know regular commands. They become thusly fucked when the predictable happens.

"I was on the Bastille, in Eldorado Canyon, one time when the party next to me was using these. I’d hear stuff like, “OK, I’m at a nice place to stand now and I’ve placed three good pieces and equalized them and clipped myself in, so you can take my rope out of your belay device. Over.” I’m thinking, Uhhh, you mean “Off”? Jesus. Sure enough, higher up one of them dropped a walkie-talkie. They guy had no idea what to do next. Totally screwed. He just started yelling into the wind, like the above example: 'Blahbuizole la blahbubbla deviceblauh gizommele elephant!'

Followed by, of course: 'WHAAAAT?!?'

'I SAID, Blahbuizole…' Well, you get it."

Read the full article here

will smith wrote:Save your money and replace the gear you left behind.

Glad someone else sees the irony.

SeanKuus wrote: A relevant Kelly Cordes story: "Why not Walkie Talkies? "Do the people who use these also use code names? They should – “Red Squirrel to Weasel One, I am off belay. Repeat, I am off belay!” These things are generally stupid. Too much to go wrong, one extra bulky thing to carry, and, worse, most of the people who use them do so because they don’t know regular commands. They become thusly fucked when the predictable happens. "I was on the Bastille, in Eldorado Canyon, one time when the party next to me was using these. I’d hear stuff like, “OK, I’m at a nice place to stand now and I’ve placed three good pieces and equalized them and clipped myself in, so you can take my rope out of your belay device. Over.” I’m thinking, Uhhh, you mean “Off”? Jesus. Sure enough, higher up one of them dropped a walkie-talkie. They guy had no idea what to do next. Totally screwed. He just started yelling into the wind, like the above example: 'Blahbuizole la blahbubbla deviceblauh gizommele elephant!' Followed by, of course: 'WHAAAAT?!?' 'I SAID, Blahbuizole…' Well, you get it." Read the full article here

Remind me why you have to pick one or the other? Kelly's red-herring doesn't prove that radio's are bad, just that retards do retarded shit.

My Vote

But seriously, there are short one or two syllable commands that should be employed when you are audible, hand signals when in view, and rope tug signals for when both of the above are not options. These, IMO, are better, safer, faster, and time tested ways to communicate with your partner. The more you climb, the more you'll start to fall into the rhythm.

Multi-pitch: Learn to feel the rope for belay when you cannot see the climber. This becomes more comfortable and natural once you're practiced at it. When the leader is safe and in direct, two sharp tugs means they are OFF BELAY. If you aren't sure, keep them on. If loads of slack starts getting quickly pulled up, you can be fairly sure that they are off. You should be tied into the bottom, so when they pull up the entirety of the rope and get to you, they'll know it as there is no more rope left. Then, once they're ready to belay you up, two more sharp tugs means CLIMB ON. No muss. No fuss.

Most importantly, both you and your partner ought to be on the same page about where they are planning to set up anchors/ how long the pitch is, and what is the intent once the pitch is completed. That way you can keep track of the rope you are paying out, and can learn to anticipate when the anchor will come up.

Are you wanting talkies for the event of a weather epic, injury, or other scenario outside of the norm where communication becomes more necessary? I can see them being useful only in these types of situations. But it seems unnecessarily complicated to me for talkies to be the routine form of communication.

I just want to know where you got your 100m rope?

David Appelhans wrote:I just want to know where you got your 100m rope?

You beat me to a snarky comment, but I've seen 100m ropes out for sale - they are usually fat sport climbing ropes though...

I probably would not have put it so eloquently, but after trying several times with various radio set ups over the years, I gotta reluctantly agree with Locker: save your money for climbing gear. Two-way radios are usually more trouble than they are worth, at least on rock routes. The one place where I enjoyed having them was on long glacier routes, where they allowed a rope team to keep up communication easily when spread out on the rope and staying separated to keep it safe on crevassed terrain. But really, aside from one conversation about route finding on Mt. Baker while standing in a spread-out line at the base of a very fractured icefall, they didn't actually help us say anything to each other that we couldn't have communicated with shouts, hand signals, and rope tugs. Instead, they just meant that we got to keep up our Beavis-and-Butthead-level banter with each other while trudging up the slope at 2 am, staying 75 feet apart. Under normal circumstances, roped climbing on glaciers can be a bit solitary, except when you bunch up at a safe belay point known to be free of crevasses. So, the radios definitely made the trip a lot of fun. We had a great time giving each other crap as we stepped over the deep cracks, but I don't think the radios significantly increased our safety or efficiency. A year later, I did another glacier climb in the northwest, and there was heavy fog throughout the lower half of the climb. By the end of the day, the radios were toast-- water resistant does not mean waterproof.

On rock routes, I think all the stuff that makes using those radios difficult-- freeing up a hand to activate them, holding them near your ear, trying not to crush them when you sit back against the rock or wedge yourself in a chimney-- gets worse.

The thing is, I keep being tempted to find out if a "better" radio would make the difference. Because the theory is so great. What if you could be in perfect communication with your partner at will, like Stallone in Cliffhanger? What if someone made a waterproof, impact-proof Bluetooth-style earpiece, no larger or heavier than a stick of gum, with perfect range and volume control, so you could talk casually with your belayer while you work the crux 100 feet above and out of earshot around a corner? If someone did, it'd probably cost the same as an entire rack and a rope. When that generation of two-way radios comes out, I can't say I won't be tempted again, but at least I'll be naturally prevented from falling for it because I'll be sure to be priced out, and in the meantime I've resigned myself to the idea that radio communication on rock routes is more trouble than it's worth with the real-world options available at the consumer level.

kuus kuus wrote: Use rope signals! A relevant Kelly Cordes story: "Why not Walkie Talkies? "Do the people who use these also use code names? They should – “Red Squirrel to Weasel One, I am off belay. Repeat, I am off belay!” These things are generally stupid. Too much to go wrong, one extra bulky thing to carry, and, worse, most of the people who use them do so because they don’t know regular commands. They become thusly fucked when the predictable happens. "I was on the Bastille, in Eldorado Canyon, one time when the party next to me was using these. I’d hear stuff like, “OK, I’m at a nice place to stand now and I’ve placed three good pieces and equalized them and clipped myself in, so you can take my rope out of your belay device. Over.” I’m thinking, Uhhh, you mean “Off”? Jesus. Sure enough, higher up one of them dropped a walkie-talkie. They guy had no idea what to do next. Totally screwed. He just started yelling into the wind, like the above example: 'Blahbuizole la blahbubbla deviceblauh gizommele elephant!' Followed by, of course: 'WHAAAAT?!?' 'I SAID, Blahbuizole…' Well, you get it." Read the full article here

I use a simple set of motorola's. 

Works great when there are a traverse and/or corners in the route. Rope tugs and your voice doesn't work well in those situations. Shouting, tugs, visual signals are the main ways. Radio's if that doesn't work. With one exception; when you knew a crag is near locals and they already complained about the noise, just use the radio (on a moderate volume). I prefer crag access over shouting. 

I have been recently experimenting with rockytalkie.com/. Bought them primarily for b/c ski and alpine but brought them to several longer rock multipitches and even cragging situations where radios could be helpful (e.g. super noisy crag). They work fine but I would only use them as the last resort, when more traditional forms of communication are not optimal.

Long alpine routes, storms, stuck ropes, running out of rope, off route, our of gear, big whips... the list goes on. 

Not one of these have me or my partner(s) used nor wished we had walkie talkies. But I can think of plenty of reasons not to rely on one: batteries dying, somebody dropping one, the awful noise they make from unintelligible garble, and-- I'll say it-- they look dumb. Equip yourself with knowledge, not these fallible little gizmos. That is my earnest recommendation. 

edit: Shouting is never necessary either. 

Stephen L wrote:

Long alpine routes, storms, stuck ropes, running out of rope, off route, our of gear, big whips... the list goes on. 

Not one of these have me or my partner(s) used nor wished we had walkie talkies. But I can think of plenty of reasons not to relay on one: batteries dying, somebody dropping one, the awful noise they make from unintelligible garble, and-- I'll say it-- they look dumb. Equip yourself with knowledge, not these fallible little gizmos. That is my earnest recommendation. 

edit: Shouting is never necessary either. 

I think it settles it - who would ever want to look dumb on a long alpine route or deciding to retreat from p12 in a fast approaching storm - so let's leave the radios to gumbies with no knowledge and/or sense of style. ;D

i have rocky talkie, they are pretty good

I wonder how good the Sena Pi is when you have a lot of rock between you and the only reason the walkie talkie is connecting is because it's bouncing the signal off a mountain a mile out. Anyways, I'm a firm believer that you don't need them as long as everything goes as planned and your multipitch is simple and without extenuating circumstances. How does one convey complex route topo through rope tugs? What if one of you needs a rescue, do you simply wait 30 minutes until you escape the belay? I've discussed plenty of verbal and rope based communication and I'd rather not have my life hang in the balance of tugging the rope twice (when I can discuss it directly with them, and if that doesn't work do what everyone else does)

Dmitry K wrote:

I think it settles it - who would ever want to look dumb on a long alpine route or deciding to retreat from p12 in a fast approaching storm - so let's leave the radios to gumbies with no knowledge and/or sense of style. ;D

I'm glad you have come around