EMTs and paramedics – what do you carry?

EMT with an herbalist GF.

Waterproof kit with BSI, tape, bandages/gauze. Ibuprofen, Vicodin, benadryll, tweezers, tick-remover, triangular bandages, antibiotic and sterilization wipes. Notepad for SAMPLE etc. marker for notes/marking envemomations, tourniquet time.

No splints or tourniquets, I can make them with slings/clothes, packs. Ginger chews (stomach aches and diabetics).

GF has taught me to keep an eye out for things like yarrow, witch's hair, osha, and other stuff.

ahhh.. love type A EMT folks who think they will save the world. But can't do it without a truck full of gear.

spout off all the of the emergency care techniques that you know but in reality the chances of needing any of it are extremely small. I've been climbing for 14 years and the most i've needed to do is steri strip a laceration in camp and tape someone's ankle after a lead fall. If I saw someone carrying an IV kit in their crag bag I would laugh my ass off. I climbed for a bunch of those years with a Combat medic(ret)/paramedic and he had none of that shit.

telling lay people to learn basically surgical techniques? HA Good Samaritan law doesn't go that far.. you screw up and you're fucked.

A few years ago I was almost in a head on collision with a SAR rescue jeep that was going 60+mph down the single-ish lane access road to Muir Valley at RRG. He was so hopped up on being badass rescue man he turned his brain off to the fact that he was putting others in danger. After I stopped laying on my horn I pulled up to tell him to slow the fuck down and his eyes were like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon.

Far more important than most of the gear listed is a basic knowledge of A+P and Patho of trauma injuries. Most equipment can be improvised. The thought of over zealous people wandering the backcountry with Iv start kits ready to bolus someone having an attack of seasonal allergies with stream water kind of scares me.

PatrickV wrote:Far more important than most of the gear listed is a basic knowledge of A+P and Patho of trauma injuries. Most equipment can be improvised. The thought of over zealous people wandering the backcountry with Iv start kits kind of scares me.

the people improvising splints in a gym when EMS is on the way scares me too.. If you don't know what you're doing, leave people alone and let professionals do it.

Jake D. wrote:ahhh.. love type A EMT folks who think they will save the world. But can't do it without a truck full of gear. spout off all the of the emergency care techniques that you know but in reality the chances of needing any of it are extremely small. I've been climbing for 14 years and the most i've needed to do is steri strip a laceration in camp and tape someone's ankle after a lead fall. If I saw someone carrying an IV kit in their crag bag I would laugh my ass off. I climbed for a bunch of those years with a Combat medic(ret)/paramedic and he had none of that shit. telling lay people to learn basically surgical techniques? HA Good Samaritan law doesn't go that far.. you screw up and you're fucked. A few years ago I was almost in a head on collision with a SAR rescue jeep that was going 60+mph down the single-ish lane access road to Muir Valley at RRG. He was so hopped up on being badass rescue man he turned his brain off to the fact that he was putting others in danger. After I stopped laying on my horn I pulled up to tell him to slow the fuck down and his eyes were like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon.

If the Navy didn't teach me everything I know now because the chances of me running into every scenario that I could possibly handle were slim, then what would the world be like? I live amongst civilians, too. I stop by traffic accidents, where emergency responders haven't showed up yet, to ask if anyone's hurt. I keep a med kit in my car. Anyone can run their vehicle head on into someone else, but not everyone can respond in scenarios without advice from experienced professionals (so that professional you dealt with is just another dude until he arrives to the scene). I just contributed. Can you tell me that you know that none of the people's advice on here that you've cut down is valuable?

Jake D. wrote: the people improvising splints in a gym when EMS is on the way scares me too.. If you don't know what you're doing, leave people alone and let professionals do it.

This is in regard to my original post? Didn't think I'd need to include that his friends transported him to the hospital. Now I've got ppl thinking they can help me with my stories. I was trying to keep my post short so as not to steal the thread, entirely. I thought i could possibly shed some light on things that hadn't been covered, yet. I applaude the cric procedure cuz I've done it before and it worked, just like instructors said it would. I say the things I say for a reason, cuz I've seen people dying right in front of me before. I love climbing, partly cuz ppl offer advice and try to befriend and help each other out. So the positive, constructive, non stubborn people on here that have witnessed the members that don't follow Guideline #1-- take note of those individuals, and try to avoid them. They don't know what to do in a serious situation.

don't forget a therapy dog named shithead

Carrying a trauma bag around to the crag with you waiting for something to happen is silly. Having it in your car available is not. plus you're more likely to be in an accident on the road than on the rock.

you'll notice i'm not the only one saying that carrying the ER with you isn't necessary..

And that SAR's experience would be useless if we had crashed and caused a more serious accident. Then there would be 2 accidents and one less responder.

To be called an EMT it takes a few weeks.. to be called WFR it takes a few days. So I am always amused that people hold credentials in such high regard.

Edit:
Oh please.. you're going to go off on a "look how hardcore i am, i'm a medic blah blah" then hide behind Rule #1 lol

All I said was you don't need the kitchen sink. you can be all sensitive about it if you want but you don't need all that gear. And you shouldn't tell people to perform surgery that will get them sued.

Ready for EVERY contingency.

Jump Kit

Bleeding control and long bone fractures....

I carry a few 5x9 combi dressings, cling wrap, 4-6 cravats, a sam splint, some small trauma shears, some tape, a head lamp, a lighter, a whistle, an emergency blanket, some paper and a pen, and some gloves. All together, including the fancy case I got when I took my EMT-Basic at SOLO, it weighs 1 lb 12 ounces (about 800 grams)

Besides bleeding control, my concern with a patient in the woods is really just keeping him/her comfortable until the 'cavalry' arrives. That means keeping them warm and splinting long bone fracture as adequately as I can. Good splinting could might get someone moving on their own as well, which is also going to be faster and less work(well, not for the patient :P) than a litter carry.

I would carry narcotic analgesics as well, but hey, you can't have everything. I don't carry band aids.

If was to add anything, probably quick-clot.

I think the most important thing to realize is that the most comprehensive kit in the world is useless without the knowledge.

First thing you should spend money on is a WFA or AWFA course, or if you got the money/time/inclination a WFR.

Webbing & ice axe; trekking poles, 2sammys w/ an ace, & nsaids for luxury.

Taped a dude's hand to his head, that was different.

A couple of bleeders used the gauze.

Potential cardiacs, had aspirin.

And a couple of allergics, used their own meds on it.

Mostly used sammys for some leg or arm injuries.

I've also seen a few go bad, but that's pretty much definitive.

Really, I can't believe how many goddamn accidents have happened when I'm out.

I'm a paramedic and a WFR with urban and rural EMS experience. I've also worked in an ER and I did SAR for about 2 years.

A friend fell while hiking the Chicago basin. Ended up being a tib-fib fracture. Made a splint using his camping gear since I didn't have a SAM at the time. Hiked out and got him to an urgent care 36 hrs later.

A friend was being a dumb ass and broke his wrist while back packing. SAM splint, tape, Tylenol. Gave him shit the entire time. 10+ hrs to treatment.

My niece was bit by a dog while camping. Irrigated the wound with NS, put some benzoin and steri-strips on it, and bandaged it. It was 6 hrs until they got to a hospital due to the time of day and location. She got 6 stitches and some antibiotics.

Climbing next to a dude that fell 40 ft and sent his knee threw his teeth. Tried to protect his airway and keep I'm immobilized. Ground crews got their in about 20 min. They flew him out about 20 min after that. I didn't have anything with me at the time. Probably wouldn't have used much but some suction would have been nice.

In nearly thirty years as a SAR/EMT-P I've never carried or even seen used a SAM splint. Best thing in the bag is common sense and the ability to improvise.

Usually have a roll of coaches tape. Sometimes in winter a space blanket.

That's about it.

" And that SAR's experience would be useless if we had crashed and caused a more serious accident.

And you shouldn't tell people to perform surgery that will get them sued. "

There's obviously a balance between increased risk to populace and rescuer and prompt medical response and evacuation/transport of a patient. Without knowing enough of the road and what's reasonable, it's hard to comment and I don't really understand the point of your story in this thread.

Almost everybody has performed outside of their skill-level. People give drugs to other people all the time. If I have a vicodin and my friend is in intense pain and has no contraindication I know of I'll give it to them if they want it. I've never had to cut a friend but if I'm certain they are going to die I'm definitely going to poke a few holes in them if I think I know how to do it. What's the worst that happen, they die?. I'm not that worried about a lawsuit.

To the OP I carry ibuprofen, pepto-bismal (it's not an emergency but can make a day a lot nicer), antacids, some opiates, 4x4s, tape, curlex, some small band-aids, moleskin, steri-strips, tincure benzoine, some gloves, anti-biotic ointment, emergency blanket, tweezers, safety-pins, trauma shears, and a SAM splint. I also have a PLB on me. I figure I can get a tourniquet out of a lot of the things I have nearby (shirts, shoelaces, rolled tape). It all sits in a ziploc bag that goes where I go outdoors along with the rest of the 10 essentials. Climbing multi-pitch routes it will usually get left at the base of the route and I bring tape, knife, and a plan. If I have an expectation of serious water it goes into something more water resistant than a ziploc. I keep meaning to add benadryl to this list...

Edit: forgot to add pen, basic notepad, and a lot of the stuff is in smaller ziploc bags that can be used for irrigation.

Jake D. wrote: To be called an EMT it takes a few weeks.. to be called WFR it takes a few days.

To be an EMT took 3hrs of college credit and a minimum of clinical experience (72hrs with an ambulance service and 16hrs in an ER minimum) down in Texas.

The wilderness cert for medical professionals (basically the same coverage as a WFR) was 48 hours of training. If you don't have an existing license it's a significant amount of time more since they cover a lot of basics that medical professionals are assumed to know.

I'd agree it's not a whole bunch of time and it's just a title, using and practicing is very important, but it's way more than most people have and I think extremely important. Many books will tell you how but instruction is very important.

For climbing, I agree with the simple list of small knife, duct tape (usually around water bladder or bottle), and some "know-how" ingrained in the brain. I also have traced out with a sharpie, splints and a neck brace pattern in my foam pack-liner or bivy pad if I have it. These can be cut out quickly and used with duct tape in an emergency...(and I have used them) most climbing injuries are orthopedic or head neck in some fashion. Plus, I can tell you from experience, that whipping out a knife, quickly cutting out useful shapes and slapping them on with duct tape impresses the onlookers, calms the patient, does a modicum of good, and gives you something constructive to do. Otherwise, you're just another asshole asking stupid questions.

And yes, at the gym let EMS handle it. In the back country I'd only admit to being a WEMT if A). the girl is good looking, or B). Or Someone really really really needs help. I'm not slicin' up my pack or pad for some stunned dork who can hobble out on his own.

Dan- I've done the eye rinse by just squirting my water bladder hose in my eye. Typically you have enough stuff already with you that can be used creatively without extra specialized gear.

How about Documentation?? Any of you P-tards and ever use proper medical abbreviation. Like....
medilexicon.com/?page=humor…
defensivecarry.com/forum/of…

I used dmf a few times

Buff, your comments on MP "crack" me up. I think a few of the trolls and regulars on MP are medical providers. I think Ellenor is a RN.

I've guided for more than 10 years and worked as a front country EMT for 5.

When I'm out on my own, I carry duct tape (on my water bottle), maybe some coaches tape, and a small multi-tool

I actually just made up a list for a kit that I needed while I was working as a team medic in rural parts of Africa, I was at least 6 hours from definitive care, so I felt pretty certain that if it was possible to keep someone alive for that amount of time/transport, I could do it with this kit.

CPR Mask/barrier
Gloves
SAM splint
Kerlix/Gauze roll
4x4's
Ace Wrap/Coban
Athletic Tape
Triangular Bandage
Trauma Shears
Tweezers/forceps

Alcohol swabs
Providone Iodine swabs

Tylenol
Ibuprofen
Benadryl
baby aspirin
Albuterol Inhaler
glucose tabs/gel
Epipen/twinject/Vial of epinephrine and syringes

I find less is more, some of the kits I've had to carry when guiding are ridiculously big and heavy. If you can improvise and know a few tricks, you can manage most problems with minimal kit.