Garda knot

There is no such thing as a Garda knot. It's a hitch

michaeltarne wrote: No, but Munters are significantly more slippery than ATCs, especially when it comes to lowering.

Bearbreeder beat me to it, but I would agree that you aren't necessarily wrong.

youtube.com/watch?v=6ulTTrh…

Check that out for monster munter info. Its the funny Canadian climbing guide video series, so forgive me. But it offers some good info.

michaeltarne wrote: I was just speaking from experience. After doing some research, you guys are right, Munter hitches do hold right about the same as tube devices. I guess I have always felt that lowering a second with a Munter felt like there was less friction than I'm used to (and for whatever it's worth the AMGA does too.)

Just curious, are you trying to brake the same way that you would with a tube style device? The correct braking method with the munter is pulling the two strands parallel to each other, if you're pulling the brake strand like you would with an ATC, there will be a significant reduction in braking force. Personally, I've always felt like there is more friction when I'm using a munter than an ATC, but it could just be the rope/biner combo I was using as well.

rgold wrote:... But not if you use a prussik, which is much too hard to loosen. Instead use an autoblock knot, which had the advantage that you can break its lock under load---this is why that knot is typically used for rappel back-ups. With some clever rigging, you can get the autoblock knot to collide with the Munter biner and release when rope is taken in, while nonetheless grabbing if the rope tries to run out. But the knot is also easily managed with the non-brake hand if you put it on a two-foot sling to allow the non-brake hand to pull in slack and manage the knot.

You're right, of course. I have a bad habit of call every friction hitch a prusik.

clay meier wrote:There is no such thing as a Garda knot. It's a hitch

This statement should have begun with "no offense".

stephen crimin wrote:drop your auto blocking belay device

don't do this

If you want an autolocking Munter for an upper belay, it actually works quite well to belay direct and set your hitch of choice on the braking strand, anchored to your harness (belay or leg loop). You can easily push it up or down the rope by simply keeping your braking hand just below or above it. Like for a hitch back-up on a rappel, the fact that it locks on the braking strand means that it does not jam hard and remains easy to release. Your Munter works exactly as a normal Munter, allowing you to take in, arrest a fall, lower or pay slack just as easily while keeping the autolock feature on at all times; ie you don’t have to remove the autolocking biner to lower or give slack to the second. I got ridiculed for suggesting this before but I’ve had a chance to try it out and it works great. It’s now my preferred method for belaying a second.

jktinst wrote:If you want an autolocking Munter for an upper belay, it actually works quite well to belay direct and set your hitch of choice on the braking strand, anchored to your harness (belay or leg loop). You can easily push it up or down the rope by simply keeping your braking hand just below or above it. Like for a hitch back-up on a rappel, the fact that it locks on the braking strand means that it does not jam hard and remains easy to release. Your Munter works exactly as a normal Munter, allowing you to take in, arrest a fall, lower or pay slack just as easily while keeping the autolock feature on at all times; ie you don’t have to remove the autolocking biner to lower or give slack to the second. I got ridiculed for suggesting this before but I’ve had a chance to try it out and it works great. It’s now my preferred method for belaying a second.

Ok. I get it. For a regular munter you have to keep your hand on the brake. But for the auto blocking munter you need to keep your hand on the brake to manage the auto block. Hmmm.

Darren Mabe wrote: don't do this

For the win! But if I had to I would use the rope twisting Munter.

I have messed about with the autolocking munter, and it has a potential weakness. The "locking" biner needs to be big enough not to sniggle thru the main HMS style biner if possible, lest it no longer autoblock. It takes some effort to find the perfect biner combo to prevent the locking biner from "flipping" with the hitch. In reality probably not a big deal cuz ur right there tending evrything. But anyway...so yeah..

Have you never learned to hip belay?

Here is another autolocking hitch that is less prone to capsizing than the Garda and it doesn't need identical biners. Depending on the carabiners you use it can be almost impossible to capsize. I'm guessing it feeds easier than an autlocking Munter.

mountainproject.com/v/what-…

real version

Leaving aside the specific siutations/applications of the Garda...(who the hell would attempt to belay with one?)

What kind of moron sets a garda up on screw-gate lockers (as in the USN00by/Audiobahn5000/20kn/linked video), then expects it to actually function properly? If the thing physically can't squeeze the biners together due to the sleeve(s), of course it won't lock. You'd have to be pretty thick to expect otherwise.

DannyUncanny wrote:Here is another autolocking hitch that is less prone to capsizing than the Garda and it doesn't need identical biners. Depending on the carabiners you use it can be almost impossible to capsize. I'm guessing it feeds easier than an autlocking Munter.

It’s the second time I’ve come across this kind of set-up in the past couple of weeks. The first was as a new (to me) way to attach my rope to the bights at the end of the rope-setting cords at my gym. After giving it a quick try in the configuration shown here, I gotta say I like it. I will definitely want to test it more thoroughly as an alternative to the garda, complementing a prusik (or such like) in a system to walk up the rope. But, seriously: as an autolocking system to belay the second ? Not a chance!