Sandia Wilderness to reopen on 7/16/2013

Yup, I got lost Lee, wandered around for about two hours before finally finding Sentinal (I think). By that time the sky was starting to look rather ominous so we retreated back to the car. Adventure for another day!

I got my copy of Sandia rock yesterday. It looks about the same as my old book, a few more routes. I wish it gave heights for the routes. maybe some color pictures would help I am just spoiled and used to the jemez rock book I suppose.

ian watson wrote:I got my copy of Sandia rock yesterday. It looks about the same as my old book, a few more routes. I wish it gave heights for the routes. maybe some color pictures would help I am just spoiled and used to the jemez rock book I suppose.

The new book has a bunch of new routes and is a great resource--tons of thanks to Mick for completing such a huge task. Not sure what grade you are climbing Ian, but most of the new routes are harder and totally worth doing. I would argue some of the best routes in the Sandias have only appeared in the most recent guidebook. At the more moderate 5.10 grade I highly recommend Lee's two routes over by Hole in the Wall...Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. Those pitches totally rule.

William

Williampenner wrote: The new book has a bunch of new routes and is a great resource--tons of thanks to Mick for completing such a huge task. Not sure what grade you are climbing Ian, but most of the new routes are harder and totally worth doing. I would argue some of the best routes in the Sandias have only appeared in the most recent guidebook. At the more moderate 5.10 grade I highly recommend Lee's two routes over by Hole in the Wall...Dr. Jeckle & Mr. Hyde. Those pitches totally rule. William

I am not climbing 5.10 but I have seen some routes I am interested in climbing in the new book. I don’t think the book is bad I just think with my old one and mountain project I basically already had it covered for what I can climb, but hopefully I will be able to climb more reliably soon and can push my grades up. Anyone want to buy my 1st Sandia rock book?

:I checked out those routes on here wish I could climb that hard they do look fun. But maybe I can give miss piggy a go.

David Sahalie wrote:Lol, What a bumblefest of a thread. Is that the clinking of hexes on a shoulder sling I doth hear?

Yeah that is probably my fault once the fire info talk was out of the way I started talking all things sandia.......... Staying on topic or one thought at a time is not my strong suit lol.

ian watson wrote: Yeah that is probably my fault once the fire info talk was out of the way I started talking all things sandia.......... Staying on topic or one thought at a time is not my strong suit lol.

Ian, there is no need to apologize to David. He wouldn't apologize to you for his being less than kind. The sound of hexes is great to listen to as long as they aren't on your rack.

W

hex size 7-10 I think are great......maybe thats why I climb so low :)
or maybe I just dont have the stones to carry double 2,3 c4's.

Ian, get up with me if you want to climb sometime...no judgment for off topic conversations.

abqdrew wrote:Ian, get up with me if you want to climb sometime...no judgment for off topic conversations.

That could be fun but I have a surgery and a few other medical things coming up. Untill that is all done I am just climbing short single pitch and bouldering.

ian watson wrote:I got my copy of Sandia rock yesterday. It looks about the same as my old book, a few more routes. I wish it gave heights for the routes. maybe some color pictures would help I am just spoiled and used to the jemez rock book I suppose.

Unless there is a new edition, the Jemez rock book does not have color photos besides the cover. If we were all wiling to pay $50 or more we could probably get a color book, but with the number of copies that will be sold it is unlikely that the Sandia book will be in color or have a ton more info any time soon.

LeeAB wrote: Unless there is a new edition, the Jemez rock book does not have color photos besides the cover. If we were all wiling to pay $50 or more we could probably get a color book, but with the number of copies that will be sold it is unlikely that the Sandia book will be in color or have a ton more info any time soon.

yeah I did not word that right.Also when I said It looks about the same I ment the layout not that it had all the same info. The jemez rock does not have color pictures but the Description along with real pictures for almost everything makes finding a route very easy. Since stuff in the sandias is generally hard to find until you spend a lot of time up there a color pic or even more pictures would help a lot (speaking for myself) for even $50 I would be a buyer guide books usually only come out every 6 ish years anyways so that breaks down to $8.33 a year if the book saved me a few hours of aggravation (more then the book already does, without it I would be really screwed) it would be well worth it. For $8.33 a year someone could smoke one less pack of cigs a year, go to starbucks one less time. A climber can throw down $50 on a cam and not blink a eye but will cheap out in the map department to get somewhere to climb. I have lent out my guide books a fair amount of times to people walking around staring at the rock and you can tell they are massively lost shooting for a beginner 5.7 about ready to climb a 5.11. (nothing against lending it If you see me anywhere have at my guide book) but I don’t want to walk around lost anymore then I have to. I work full time and my time is worth more then money since I can’t get out as much as I would like.

I am just throwing out my .02 of a few minor things that would take the book from a 7-8 to a 10 As a paying customer of both books and just about every other book in NM . I think the new book is a improvement and I am sure it will be valuable purchase to me over the next 6 years it is worth the $20 or as I look at it a investment or 3.30ish a year To save a few hours .

Climbers are tight bastards regardless of what theyre buying. In skiing there's a culture of spending money - $1000 for a season pass, sure why not? in climbing on the other hand there's a culture of dirtbagging

If NM wants colour guidebooks, an excellent way of both gauging interest and ultimately funding the printing costs would be to use Kickstarter. It would have to a be well publicized effort though. You have to sell ~1000 books at ~$30 to make it work.

Owen Summerscales wrote:Climbers are tight bastards regardless of what theyre buying. In skiing there's a culture of spending money - $1000 for a season pass, sure why not?.... an excellent way of both gauging interest and ultimately funding the printing costs would be to use Kickstarter. It would have to a be well publicized effort though. You have to sell ~1000 books at ~$30 to make it work.

I think the numbers I remember is that the print run for the last Sandia book was 500 and that did not sell through in the 10 years that it was the only resource available. Though I might be wrong and it sold through in 9.5 years. On the other hand for the Red River Gorge they go through something like 4-5,000 in a couple of years and get a new edition, that then gets split into 2 after a couple more years. The Sandias just will not support it.

I also feel like most people get lost hiking, so a photo of the wall while it would help to locate the routes faster once you get to the wall, would not really help to get you to the wall, unless they were approach photos which are certainly not as fun to look at.

LeeAB wrote: I think the numbers I remember is that the print run for the last Sandia book was 500 and that did not sell through in the 10 years that it was the only resource available. Though I might be wrong and it sold through in 9.5 years. On the other hand for the Red River Gorge they go through something like 4-5,000 in a couple of years and get a new edition, that then gets split into 2 after a couple more years. The Sandias just will not support it. I also feel like most people get lost hiking, so a photo of the wall while it would help to locate the routes faster once you get to the wall, would not really help to get you to the wall, unless they were approach photos which are certainly not as fun to look at.

wow those numbers are way lower then I would think I would have thought a few thousand for the Sandias.

What can you say... backwater state? Its frustrating to see the northeast get full colour guides sometimes to really shitty crags whilst NM has such good climbing and not a single guidebook that truly does any of it justice.. actually now that i think about it, it doesnt sound that bad of a deal :)

I think paper guidebooks can still be competitive vs online resources. But I think the main advantage a paper book has is that it can get you really psyched - full colour photos taken by pro photographers that make you drool, along with nice visual approach directions. MP will never be able to provide that.

Oh and I also think its pretty ironic that possibly the most colourful state is beset by black and white guidebooks!

Owen Summerscales wrote:What can you say... backwater state? Its frustrating to see the northeast get full colour guides sometimes to really shitty crags whilst NM has such good climbing and not a single guidebook that truly does any of it justice.. actually now that i think about it, it doesnt sound that bad of a deal :) I think paper guidebooks can still be competitive vs online resources. But I think the main advantage a paper book has is that it can get you really psyched - full colour photos taken by pro photographers that make you drool, along with nice visual approach directions. MP will never be able to provide that.

I agree while I use MP alot, I still like the guidebooks. Throw one in a freezer bag and it will last years and still look almost new.I like that I can carry more routs in a smaller space rather then take the printout from MP to go to one place. When you get there and someone is using the route you are screwed without the guidebook (unless you know the area). Also the worse looking climbing the better that is the biggest plus in the sandias not much riff raff up there. I can't believe at the sell rate for the Sandia's anyone takes all that time to make a book but I thank you for it. I need to upgrade my brick GPS to a lighter one I will actually carry anyone happy with a model?

ian watson wrote: I agree while I use MP alot, I still like the guidebooks. Throw one in a freezer bag and it will last years and still look almost new.I like that I can carry more routs in a smaller space rather then take the printout from MP to go to one place. When you get there and someone is using the route you are screwed without the guidebook (unless you know the area). Also the worse looking climbing the better that is the biggest plus in the sandias not much riff raff up there. I can't believe at the sell rate for the Sandia's anyone takes all that time to make a book but I thank you for it. I need to upgrade my brick GPS to a lighter one I will actually carry anyone happy with a model?

• I fully agree that I still like to have the book if there is one. Though I don't keep any in freezer bags.
• MP app on your phone lets you carry anything that is on the site, more compact yet than a guide since you probably have your phone anyway. Data is accessible off line (you upload the areas you want to your phone) so you don't need to worry about reception.
• Yes the fact that not a lot of books get sold means no lines for the good routes.
• Mick has done a huge service over the years in putting the work into the guide, we can't thank you enough Mick.
• GPS app for a smart phone if you have one. Again, since you are probably going to carry your phone anyway. Just be sure to turn the app off once you are are done because they drain your battery.

LeeAB wrote: *I fully agree that I still like to have the book if there is one. Though I don't keep any in freezer bags. *MP app on your phone lets you carry anything that is on the site, more compact yet than a guide since you probably have your phone anyway. Data is accessible off line (you upload the areas you want to your phone) so you don't need to worry about reception. *Yes the fact that not a lot of books get sold means no lines for the good routes. *Mick has done a huge service over the years in putting the work into the guide, we can't thank you enough Mick. *GPS app for a smart phone if you have one. Again, since you are probably going to carry your phone anyway. Just be sure to turn the app off once you are are done because they drain your battery.

Thanks for the tip of offline for MP I never thought to do that.
I have a gps app on my phone but sometimes reception is not very good with it. Alot of times I dont carry my phone my partner carry's hers. I guess im still old school I almost always carry a topo and compass lol. I got lost/stranded once in really deep snow in colorado took all day to hike out could barely move by the end always carry your nav people. Also the best tip I can leave everyone with is know where lakes are under the snow so you dont drive a snow cat into one..............

What are you guys, bunch of gym climbers ?
Using a GPS to find a route is like sport climbing.
No adventure...

That's fine some of the time, but we're talking the Sandias right?
Aren't they a great big pile of steep, brush choked gullies to long loose routes ? That's what I remember from climbing in there. Like Sedona, half the work is finding the climbing.

azclimbingrocks wrote:What are you guys, bunch of gym climbers ? Using a GPS to find a route is like sport climbing. No adventure... That's fine some of the time, but we're talking the Sandias right? Aren't they a great big pile of steep, brush choked gullies to long loose routes ? That's what I remember from climbing in there. Like Sedona, half the work is finding the climbing.

• Yes, yes I am. Never climbed outdoors in my life. In fact even at the gym I mostly run my mouth so I never have to get on the wall and demonstrate my ineptitude.
• Only used the GPS to map MTB rides, if I used it to find a route I probably would not know what to do once I got there anyway.
• Absolutely, big piles of choss and over grown gully thrashing.
• I think the climbers here might prefer to actually climb, rather than hike around said loose choss filled gullies getting thrashed by the friendly underbrush, but I could be wrong.