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Moore's wall groundfall

slim · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2004 · Points: 1,103
cdec wrote:Milled stops can shear off as well. Double axle cams are the only ones that can be placed passively or "umbrella'd".
again, depends on size of the milled stop, how it's placed, etc...

but in a nutshell, avoiding placing tipped out pieces is the way to go.
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
slim wrote: again, depends on size of the milled stop, how it's placed, etc...
There are two different ideas being talked about here.
1. Placing a cam that is tipped out, hoping that the milled stops hold and that it doesn't invert.
If you are placing single axle cams and hoping they won't invert than yes bigger stops are better.

2 Purposely placing a cam passively or umbrella'd.
If you are purposely placing a cam passively (illustrated in the BD diagram) than it should be double axle. Even small double axle cams can be placed this way. However it is outside the manufacturers guidelines to place any single stem cam, of any size, passively.
Tom Mulholland · · #1 Cheese Producing State! · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 50
csproul wrote: I also would not rely on cam stops to hold a significant force, especially with smaller cams.
I thought BD cams were rated to full strength even in that position. Is that not true?
Finn The Human · · The Land of Ooo · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 106
Tom Mulholland wrote: I thought BD cams were rated to full strength even in that position. Is that not true?
C4's don't rely on camp stops to prevent inverting. The double axle takes that job, and does a much better job of it (so much so that it's safe to place C4's as passive pro). It's not unheard of, on the other hand, for cam stops to completely shear off when loaded (ie: cam stops on single axle cams aren't load bearing).
Allen Corneau · · Houston, TX · Joined May 2008 · Points: 80
cdec wrote:Double axle cams are the only ones that can be placed passively or "umbrella'd".
Finn the Human wrote:(ie: cam stops on single axle cams aren't load bearing).
Not true.

Wild Country Helium Friends are rated for 11-12kN in passive mode.
DMM 3CU's, 4CU's, and Demon cams are rated for 10kN in passive mode.

There may be others I don't remember, but you get my point.
cdec · · SLC, UT · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 654
Allen Corneau wrote: Not true. Wild Country Helium Friends are rated for 11-12kN in passive mode. DMM 3CU's, 4CU's, and Demon cams are rated for 10kN in passive mode. There may be others I don't remember, but you get my point.
Thanks Allen! Indeed they are full strength. MP does some good and I learned something today.

I have, for years, without hesitation use the BD cams passively. Good to know that the ones you mention can be used similarly.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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