Clear Creek Climbers: Open Space Needs Your Help

Hello Clear Creek Climbers, this is a call for help to collect solid numbers on use at specific crags in Clear Creek Canyon.

As of today Jefferson County Open Space is embarking on a year long census on the number of climbers that are frequenting specific crags in Clear Creek Canyon. We have deployed registration boxes at Canal Zone, Little Eiger, Anarchy Wall, and the west side of Tunnel 2 (i.e. Wall of the 90's, Mission Wall, etc.) to collect data that will help prioritize work on approach trails and staging areas as well as quantify the level use that Clear Creek Canyon sees from climbers.

I am asking all climbers that visit these crags to take the time to fill out the logs contained within these boxes every time you visit so that we can get an accurate representation of the level of use that occurs at these crags.

We also plan to install a box at High Wire, but due to site considerations we were not able to accomplish that install today.

Thank you for your help with management of this great climbing resource. If you have any questions please don't hesitate to contact me through this site or via phone at (303) 271-5915.

Thanks,

Mike Morin
Outdoor Recreation Management Coordinator
Jefferson County Open Space

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Um no thanks...

Care to explain?

For clarity the data we are looking to collect includes: date, crag, group size, time in, time out, city, state, and comments.

Mike Morin wrote:Care to explain? I'd sincerely like to know what is off putting about this?

Mike, I just don't feel the need to let everyone know where and when I am for the sake of some government org (or others) wanting numbers.

Reminds me of the debate about signing summit logs on 14ers. If 300+ people keep signing the Mt Elbert summit register every summer Sat there will soon be "recreation fees" and other non-sense...

Do you really not know how many people frequent these crags? Do you really need to "prioritize work on approach trails and staging areas"

Staging areas? What is that? Better parking? (which isn't possible of course) The county or state planning on pitching in funds for trail work, bolts, signage, trash cans etc? No thanks.

We going to have to start signing liability waivers soon too?

For the most part climbers seem to be good stewards of this canyon. Rarely do I meet people who don't respect the areas. I see very little trash at the crags. It's pretty hard to be "off-trail" since the approach's are so damn short...

If you want to work and improve approach trails etc just do it - you don't need a log to tell what's up with these crags.

Plus those sign in boxes are an eyesore frankly...

Just my 2 cents of course - not trying to be difficult - just don't understand the need and don't want to see more regulations and "official" improvements etc...

Will be in the canyon tonight but I won't be signing in...

Mike Morin wrote:Care to explain? For clarity the data we are looking to collect includes: date, crag, group size, time in, time out, city, state, and comments.

Ah - see - why do you need to know how long I've been climbing somewhere and where I'm from etc? That helps improve your approach trail etc?

I mean this in the nicest way - FUCK THAT

Wow.

A staging area is usually a platform at the base of a route or routes comprised of a crib wall and backfill. It's a nice flat area to sit, uncoil ropes, rack, etc. Knowing the most popular climbs at a crag helps trail designers think about where to put staging areas.

Jeffco has one of the best trail crews in the country, and I'd bet Mike is seeking climber data to help him make the case for aiming some of those resources at sustainable climbing access trails. There's a huge difference between saying "it seems like the canal zone is kinda busy" and saying "the canal zone had xxx visitors in xxx months".

The "just do it" approach is pretty rough. Those of us in land management agencies that "just do it" have short and/or miserable careers. Smart guys like Mike collect data to make their case.

Lastly: Clear Creek climbers (and Splatte climbers, and Staunton climbers, and front range climbers in general) have no idea how lucky they are to have Mike working on their behalf. There are plenty of times to stick it to The Man, but this might not be right time/Man.

Monty wrote:Make up a fake name/ address. Don't be a jerk, you are climbing in a park after all. If you care about the place, you'd at least do this as these numbers may help put a much needed priority on trail work in CCC.

Umm.. they aren't asking for Name and Address...

" date, crag, group size, time in, time out, city, state, and comments."

Yup just realized I skimmed through all of the pertinent stuff.. Not enough coffee yet. Regardless, suck it up and sign it for the good of future work in the Canyon.

Matt Pierce wrote: I mean this in the nicest way - FUCK THAT

WHOA. Settle down there haus, this guy is trying to make our canyon better and you're getting all worked up on government conspiracy theory. If you don't want to be found, go find some obscure climbing and solitude off the beaten path. It's CCC, man. I live in Jeffco, work in jeffco, and own property in jeffco. I want my money spent on things that directly benefit me, so this is good. Do whatever you want, but no need to attack county employees trying to better our recreation areas. I will sign in and out when I'm in the canyon.

Matt Pierce wrote: Do you really not know how many people frequent these crags? Do you really need to "prioritize work on approach trails and staging areas"

Yes. In an organization that manages close to 500 miles of trail, having a basis of prioritizing work is important.

Thanks for doing this Mike Morin! Such a great idea!

Thanks Mike! Please note the overwhelming majority of us recognize and appreciate the work you do for us!

Mike,

What is the purpose of this data collecting? You must already see a need for something but, what?

Thanks for all your efforts, Mike. We're very lucky to have the access we have in places such as clear creek and it is in large part the result of attention and hard work on behalf of yourself and others at open space. so, thank you.

If you need any help with the rest of the installations, feel free to drop me a line. I'd be happy to donate my time.

CJC wrote: get a grip dude. and educate yourself about recreation management before your next rant please.

Do Tell - since youre such the expert...

Matt, you are a douche bag. That is all.

Matt Pierce wrote: Ah - see - why do you need to know how long I've been climbing somewhere and where I'm from etc? That helps improve your approach trail etc? I mean this in the nicest way - FUCK THAT

Um, overreact much? You know Mike's on our side right?

I mean this in the nicest way - YOU"RE A FUCKING TOOL

sonvclimbing wrote:Mike, What is the purpose of this data collecting? You must already see a need for something but, what?

Many trails and staging areas in the canyon could use some love to become more sustainable. I would like to start chipping away at these projects but it really comes down to what has been mentioned above. Labor, time, and money are a finite resource in Open Space. Even projects that are done using volunteer labor require a significant amount of time on the back end to be successful. When I go to managers and supervisors that hold the check book and allocate man hours I always need to have supporting arguments to justify a project. Saying this crag is really popular or the canyon sees a significant amount use doesn't have the same impact as there were "x" climber days at "x" crag from June to August. That's the primary purpose, of this data collection.

Also, Open Space does site inventories using photo documentation to look at impacts to vegetation, soil loss, etc. and having use numbers to go along with the inventories will help paint a fuller and clearer picture. (i.e.- 1,000 visitor days occurred at the Canal Zone and contributed to this documented change to the approach trail.)

There is also some basic "nice to know" info such as where people are generally visiting from. Are most climbers from Denver? Are we seeing a lot of visits from out of towners? Though even this info can prove valuable from a management perspective if we ever need to reach out the community to address an issue.

Sorry for the long winded response, I'm happy to continue answering questions about this project as they arise, but for now I'll cut myself off at a short novel.

Cheers,

Mike

PS- Thanks for the words of support. I knew going in I would face some detractors and skepticism. Such is the way, working in the public sector.

I can see the signs now:

"Canal Zone 200 yards this way > Be sure to use the hand rails!"

"Please queue for the tyrolean here - and make sure you have signed your liability waiver - those caught not using a redundant system - $100 fine!"

And my favorite:

"please fill out your Backcountry/CCC canyon usage permit and make sure it is visible on your person at all times - and drop the carbon copy (with your leader info, name, address, party size, length of stay, number of dogs, times you will be shitting outside etc) in the box provided!"

Like I've stated - I see this as unnecessary - obviously I'm the only one and that's perfectly fine - still not signing the registers.
Guess you can pad your numbers a little for those like me and you will get what you're looking for...

Matt Pierce wrote:Guess you can pad your numbers a little for those like me and you will get what you're looking for...

Since you use the tick feature on this site, the land managers can just use that to get (most of) the requested data.
Guess you better start ticking some decoys to throw them off your trail!

pfwein wrote: Since you use the tick feature on this site, the land managers can just use that to get (most of) the requested data. Guess you better start ticking some decoys to throw them off your trail!

Dang! I better go make sure it's accurate (since it's missing a lot)

In a round-about way you made my point for me...