Climbing without health insurance.

The Stoned Master wrote:just using BSeridans example of 6k annually on premium payments: if instead of paying for your health care premium and you just saved that money, then you did get injured, even remotely serious, theres no way the 6k will cover it all. I work in the health insurance industry, claims specifically so i see 5 days a week bills/claim and medical records alot. providers, i think, are out of control with how much they charge now a days. a 5 minute "lifeline" 911 helicopter ride (not uncommon with rock climbing rescues) will run you a minimum 15,000.00. minimum, usually theyre 20,000+. they will, 99.9% chance, be out of network and be able to "balance bill" you (the difference between the health carriers allowed and the providers charge). having health insurance in america does matter and it does make a difference, even though sometimes its hard to see how.

Yep I completely agree with you. And my 6k premium figure wasn't even for one year that was for TEN years of coverage. Like you said one night in the hospital and you are already waaaaay past the 6k figure for TEN years of health insurance coverage.

Some real costs:

Yearly premium for 3 people, family under employer's discounted group policy $6200 that works out to $172 per person per month

Deductible $2000/person, but this adds to $6000 for family and $6000 must be paid out of pocket before any benefits paid. So effective deductible is $6000. Policy pays 100% of care for the rest of the calendar year.

Have to stay with in network providers to avoid any other out of network balances like TSM referred to.

This year I had a single "catastrophic" event. in hospital procedure, in in the afternoon, out the next morning: unadjusted rate $90,000. That's right. Boggling, isn't it? Insurance adjustment for in network care cut that in half. We are out of pocket $12,200 for the year, insurance pays the rest. This is for three people's coverage with a single catastrophic event. Arguably $4000 for a single person, but I reckon for a single person insured independently the equation is actually somewhat different.

The other aspect is that this eats up a fair bit of the lifetime maximum. This is the cumulative amount the policy pays out on you over the long haul. Once that is paid out, insurance company is done with you. This is how major long term illness/injury will bankrupt people, and when indeed they can take your home or whatever other assets you have. This is where being indigent to sart with may be a blessing. They will make you indigent once you are responsible for the costs. A million $ of medical care is not much for long term problems. At that point Long term disability insurance could be helpful.. or a revolver and bottle of whisky. Abamacare prohibits lifetime maximums, I don;t know if this has yet been implemented

Bsheridan, that sounds too good to be true for an independent major medical comprehensive policy. Sounds more like a supplemental policy, I question what you would actually receive for a catastrophic event. You might check the maximum payout and the fine print/disclaimers for your policy

BSheriden wrote: I pay about $55 dollars a month for a plan that has a $2500 deductible. Its a cheap plan and doesn't cover doctors offices/prescriptions and stuff like that but I got it for catastrophic injuries. So $55 a month is like $600 a year.... save that money for ten years and you have saved a whopping $6,000. You would blow through that money in one trip to an ER, so no your idea is stupid. Nice try ripping on Americans for being "undisciplined" but its better than being a moron and thinking $6,000 grand in savings is going to cover any sort of medical costs, thats funny!

Thanks for you numbers and attitude.

Often, I hear of people paying $200 to $500 per month. Your premium is quite low. I'd be curious to see how much it would really cost you out of pocket for a serious event and how much insurance actually covered.

Greg D wrote: Your premium is quite low. I'd be curious to see how much it would really cost you out of pocket for a serious event and how much insurance actually covered.

It would certainly cost me more than $600 dollars that's for damn sure! The point is its $600 a year, that is nothing. Even if this insurance plan only covers $10,000 in the event of a catastrophic injury this seems like a no brainer!

We all partake in a fairly dangerous activity. I also ski, mtn bike, trail run, road bike etc. Pretty sure that in 10 years of doing all these activities I will end up with a broken bone or a torn ligament. BAM! Insurance just paid for itself.

Greg D wrote: Thanks for you numbers and attitude. Often, I hear of people paying $200 to $500 per month.

Seriously, who the hell is paying $500 for an individual insurance premium? Are they 85 years old with cancer and COPD cause otherwise I don't believe you for a minute and think you are just saying that to try to support your "claim". Keep your head in the dirt gregD!

I am sure that Bsheridan will answer the questions aimed at him, but I wanted to chime in since I also only pay about $600 a year (or I did before wife and baby were added to my insurance). $600/yr and a $3200 yearly deductible, after which 100% of treament is covered. I had a catastrophic event while under this coverage... and it did in fact cover everything. I know of people who pay that much just for premiums and I understand how lucky I am to work for a company that offers such great medical coverage.

~ Gabe

gabeschwartz wrote:I am sure that Bsheridan will answer the questions aimed at him, but I wanted to chime in since I also only pay about $600 a year (or I did before wife and baby were added to my insurance). $600/yr and a $3200 yearly deductible, after which 100% of treament is covered. I had a catastrophic event while under this coverage... and it did in fact cover everything. I know of people who pay that much just for premiums and I understand how lucky I am to work for a company that offers such great medical coverage. ~ Gabe

Answer what questions? Looks like you just answered them for me, sounds like a similar plan as mine. I actually blew my ACL out with this insurance plan and racked up bills over $40,000, I paid my deductible($2500)out of pocket and the rest was all covered, 100%.

Not sure why people think this is too good to believe? Im a young, healthy guy with a good job... not that unreasonable.

Ben Hicks wrote: Bsheridan, that sounds too good to be true for an independent major medical comprehensive policy. Sounds more like a supplemental policy, I question what you would actually receive for a catastrophic event. You might check the maximum payout and the fine print/disclaimers for your policy

Thanks for your concern Ben but don't worry about it. As I stated above this plan saved me at least $35,000 in medical bills. It is not supplemental, you pay the premium and the rest is covered 100%. I think there is a 100k annual limit but I am not positive on that. Either way its $600 a year, you would have to be an idiot (or GregD) to not have a similar inexpensive plan.

gabeschwartz wrote:I am sure that Bsheridan will answer the questions aimed at him, but I wanted to chime in since I also only pay about $600 a year (or I did before wife and baby were added to my insurance). $600/yr and a $3200 yearly deductible, after which 100% of treament is covered. I had a catastrophic event while under this coverage... and it did in fact cover everything. I know of people who pay that much just for premiums and I understand how lucky I am to work for a company that offers such great medical coverage. ~ Gabe

I want that! But I probably don't want your job!

Ben Hicks wrote: I want that! But I probably don't want your job!

Holy shit, just looked at your profile. Youre a geriatric no wonder you are paying so much!

BSheriden wrote: Thanks for your concern Ben but don't worry about it. As I stated above this plan saved me at least $35,000 in medical bills. It is not supplemental, you pay the premium and the rest is covered 100%. I think there is a 100k annual limit but I am not positive on that. Either way its $600 a year, you would have to be an idiot (or GregD) to not have a similar inexpensive plan.

Buddy, I am no idiot, and the geriatric comment is outta line. Onsighting 5.11 a few days ago, give me a break.

But, only have access to the plan offered by employer.

The current employer's group policy premiums are not determined by age, and are less than half the cost in premiums trying to get insurance independently, where they do adjust by age, and pre existing conditions (which are supposed to be eliminated in 2014).

You apparently are very lucky. I'd sure like access to your kind of plan.

A hah!

here is a basic underlying reason for our higher cost. friggin insurance company gets you as soon as you are insuring spouse or family:
Please excuse my ignorance. Actual plan rates, These are premiums costs per pay period, 26 pay periods/yr... fascinating.

Employee only $51.89 $1349/yr for individual
Employee & spouse $179.01 $2327/yr per person
Family $241.27 $2091/yr/person

pays to be single.

Interesting reading: coloradohealthinsuranceexch…

They call this affordable!!!??? Sheesh!

Locker wrote:54 ain't young!

True

Locker wrote:Geriatric might fit.

Nah, not here anyway

Locker wrote: LOL!

agreed,

BSheriden wrote: Holy shit, just looked at your profile. Youre a geriatric no wonder you are paying so much!

yep yep you are always gonna stay younged , beautful and skinny....justo like Holywood is telling you...

you would think with the costs of healthcare all Americans would be super health concious, none of the obesity and drug and alcohol /smoking going on....but no its the opposite.

Ben Hicks wrote:A hah! here is a basic underlying reason for our higher cost. friggin insurance company gets you as soon as you are insuring spouse or family: Please excuse my ignorance. Actual plan rates, These are premiums costs per pay period, 26 pay periods/yr... fascinating. Employee only $51.89 $1349/yr for individual Employee & spouse $179.01 $2327/yr per person Family $241.27 $2091/yr/person pays to be single.

yep, it would cost $900 a month for Mr Stone to be ensured, so he gets qualified for pro rated healthcare....system...system...

craghead wrote: yep yep you are always gonna stay younged , beautful and skinny....justo like Holywood is telling you...

Younged? Elenor, you still have no idea how to speak English? Haven't you been living in the country for years now?

Jake Jones wrote:BS does have a point though. His main point is that regardless of what you're paying, not having it and citing that you're saving money by rolling the dice is an idiotic sentiment.

Exactly my point. I was just trying to point out that GregD has an idiotic sentiment and instead all of you ladies had your feelings hurt.

And Ben you were really surprised to learn that insurance rates are higher for families vs. single individuals? Really? And you were just lecturing ME on my insurance plan??? thats great... lol

BSheriden wrote: Exactly my point. I was just trying to point out that GregD has an idiotic sentiment and instead all of you ladies had your feelings hurt. And Ben you were really surprised to learn that insurance rates are higher for families vs. single individuals? Really? And you were just lecturing ME on my insurance plan??? thats great... lol

Not that it costs more to insure more people, no. But yes, I was surprised that the per person cost (including the employee) for premiums is greater than 70% higher if you sign up your spouse, and 55% more per person for family rates through employer.

And surprised at the disparity between your rate and ours through employer sponsored policies that seem similar in terms of coverage. Even if we only had one insured it would still be more than double your rate. And again, our rates are not age dependent, they are the same for employees regardless of age. Yes, I indeed learned something today.

We at least agree on the underlying theme that having no health insurance leaves you wide open for financial misery way beyond your injury.

You are lucky to have such a great plan BSheriden, just jealous of your great rates, everlasting youth and superior manliness! lol back at ya

American Alpine Club his a rescue benefit program, and negotiated group rate health plans:

americanalpineclub.org/p/be…

Ben Hicks wrote: Not that it costs more to insure more people, no. But yes, I was surprised that the per person cost (including the employee) for premiums is greater than 70% higher if you sign up your spouse, and 55% more per person for family rates through employer. And surprised at the disparity between your rate and ours through employer sponsored policies that seem similar in terms of coverage. Even if we only had one insured it would still be more than double your rate. And again, our rates are not age dependent, they are the same for employees regardless of age. Yes, I indeed learned something today. We at least agree on the underlying theme that having no health insurance leaves you wide open for financial misery way beyond your injury. You are lucky to have such a great plan BSheriden, just jealous of your great rates, everlasting youth and superior manliness! lol back at ya

My wife and I have independent health care, where it is significantly cheaper to add a second person. The reason your health insurance through your employer makes this more expensive is that they either a) subsidize part of the cost of your care but not that of your spouse or family or b) negotiated a rate that prioritizes their individual employees but not their spouses or family.