No more fees for Mirror Lake or AF

Nate_801 wrote:Get a better job

Thank Jeebus for this valuable pointer... You're a helpful lad.

This all a result of the Bat Crap Crazy Republican Tax Policies that started with Ronald Reagan. Our taxes used to pay for everyone now they try to "harvest" all the fees the from just the the users. It costs 6 dollars because of the volume people vs. the cost of maintenance. It also tends to excludes the less fortunate and infrequent user from enjoying the land that belongs to all Americans. Another examples of this failed approach is the health care system which also used to exclude the less fortunate (people with pre-existing conditions/low income) and the infrequent users of the system (young but high accident risks). FYI- This was addressed and fixed by Obamacare and will be fully implemented in 2014.

If you want to reduce land user fees vote for a progressive.

LMAO mike.

I agree it's pretty ridiculous the fee is based off demand. A great example is Arches NP but then again that's the way it works. Supply and demand..

I completely disagree with obamacare. I do feel sorry for the select few people out there that have disabilities that make it so they can't work but let's be honest mike there is only a select few that truly can't work! And this is why he have medicare! A huge majority of these people are lazy, need to get off there a ss and get a job. I completely disagree with the fact that I should have to pay for these lazy people's insurance, food stamps, ect when they could be working.

Why is it that because I decided to go to college and pursue a good career in the medical field I should have to pay higher taxes? It's bull sh it! All Obama has done is make the lazy people more lazy and feel like they deserve things given to them for free.

Like I said in my previous post.. Get a job!!

Oh good your have some interest in learning. Obama care has already reduce the cost of medical care. Don't believe me look it up, please. Your taxes will go down because of it. again look it up. Paul Ryan ( whack job republican) even used this reduction as part of his proposed tea party budget. again look it up.

Also- 40% of the people who don't have health care have job but their employer does not provide health insurance. Try buying on the private market. It will cost you up to 800 a month if they will even insure you.

Also2- don't listen to the FOX, the RUSH, The Beck. you will continue to be as misinformed as you are now.

Mike why then did my deductibles and premiums go up? Oh that's right it's to pay for the 40% (I bet you fall in that catagory). If you don't have insurance for your family with the current full time job you have then maybe it's time to get off your a*ss and get a better job!!

Nate_801 wrote:a ss [...] bull sh it

It's ASS and BULLSHIT. I'm pretty sure nobody's going to hold two curse words against you when your stated political convictions amount to proudly taking a shit on anyone who isn't privileged.

Mike has a really good job.

Nate_801 wrote:Mike why then did my deductibles and premiums go up? Oh that's right it's to pay for the 40% (I bet you fall in that catagory). If you don't have insurance for your family with the current full time job you have then maybe it's time to get off your a*ss and get a better job!!

First off, they took err jerbs.

Secondly, have you ever been to the hospital?

Maybe, and this is because there have been 100's of economic research and policy development studies related to the topic, that the reason you pay so much is not so much because of the uninsured (albeit part of the issue, it's referred to as the "free rider" principle) but because of the PRICING.

Have you ever been to a Starbucks and the dude in front of you pays $1.50 for his latte and then you order the same drink and your price is $14,000?

Well, in the medical industry there is no such thing as standardized pricing, nor is there a regulatory agency to prevent price discrimination. I went in for an illness a few years ago, YUP I HAVE INSURANCE, and after the fact I was looking at my bill and it turned out that I was given an "fever reducer" -- This lonely fever reducer set me back, wait no, it set back my insurance company (that's the 3rd party system we have come to love) a whooping 23 dollars. And like every other person who has insurance, you say say "who cares" my insurance paid for it...but did they really pay 23 dollars for an aspirin??????? Nope. The insurance company settles on a lower amount for the bill. Guess who picks up the tab for the remainder?? The United States government...

You ask me how? I'll feed you baby bird.

Medicare and Medicaid, the healthcare programs our government offers to our elderly and highly impoverished, ends up footing the bill. When a Medi- patient goes to the hospital, they are charged extra for products and services, AS I mentioned before there isn't a standardization process for pricing in Healthcare so they can literally do whatever the hell they please. Therefore, since the government is the one who is paying the bill, why not ratchet them up and give them a good lashing since the hospital KNOWS they have to pay up.

Now. Lets go back to Starbucks, and assume it acts along the same market principles as the healthcare industry. Lets say that If you didn't get your Latte, because of some strange illness, you would presumably die. (As is the condition in the healthcare market and their goods) The guy in front of me just likes the taste of the latte, so he buys his at the low low price of a $1.50 - because, clearly, its just a luxury and if they told him the price was 14,000 dollars he spit in stupid hipsters face and tell him to eat shit...

But you step up to the Beret wearing d-dag barista and order your LIFE giving latte, and he lays it down and says drearly "that'll be $14,000 dollars" -- You need this latte to live, if you don't buy it, you'll die. This is called inelastic demand. Regardless of the change in the price, you are going to demand this good. Why? Cause YER GUNNA DIE ... if you don't get it.

Lets say you are "Coffee insured" - like the scenario with the "fever reducer" above- the bill is paid by your insurance (WAIT - lets not forget your deductible!) but they don't pay the full amount, so later on down the road the US government gets footed with the bill when some Army Vet orders a Machiatto and his bill is $23,000.

Lets say you are "Coffee Uninsured" - and lets assume that Starbucks has to serve you - which isn't far off- so you grab your latte, they hand you an invoice to be paid at a later date and you leave. And lets say you don't give a shit your credit will go to 0 and you never pay the bill. Starbucks, once again, turns to the Poor grandmother who orders a White Chocolate Mocha and her Coffee-care government coffee insurance, and lays a $34,000 dollar bill on her, paid for by the US Gov. And you are also stuck with credit collection agency people calling your house everyday trying to squeeze a nickel of debit that has already been paid.

Nate-801 ... I assume you love your free market capitalism and all it's infinite wisdom. Does this sound like a sound and efficient market for providing healthcare?

Nobel Laurete Economists don't think so... but what do they know right?

Maybe, and once again this is backed by 100's of research studies and Economic policy analysis, if we all paid a little more on our taxes and turned to a "single payer" system - we wouldn't allow for such rampant price discrimination. How much do we pay in premiums and deductibles and co-pays every year?? You'd probably pay less in taxes under the single payer system.

Speaking of which,

I'd love a Cappuccino now.

Thanks for getting my back Shiho. You been getting out?

Hey Nate,
You probably work for a crappy company that is making you pay more and more of your premiums so they can make a few extra bucks cuz thats the way the man works. I really hope you can find the time to do some research on this issue.

Hey Nate,
safetyfourth did some research (see above).

You are being played like a baby grand son. You think as long as you got someone else to beat on you are doing just fine. This tactic has been used to manipulate public opinion since Roman times.

SMH...

Mike, bro have I ever been to a hospital? I go to the hospital at least 5 times a shift dragging in dead beats and am very familiar with the prices of what a single asprin costs. I agree with you that when the ER or fire department gives you a medication (that would normally cost you a few bucks for a bottle) and mark it up 1000% it's unfair. But this happens because so many people like to take advantage of the system.

Now to Medicare and Medicaid. I know for a fact when I transport someone who tells me they have one of these insurances we aren't going to get hardly any money from it. For example if the transport costs $1500 the fire department would be lucky to get $200 and are expected to eat the rest. The government doesn't make up the rest! Now you might say $1500 is a crazy high amount to charge for a transport for someone who stubbed their toe or drank to much listerine to get a buzz but the government regulates what we can charge. It's not the insurance or a board member at a hospital it's the government. Also why don't these people take a cab or have a friend drive them to the ER? It's because they feel entitled...

Lastly I have two little boys and have had the same insurance for both of them when they were born. My first one I paid a $250 co pay and that was it. This was 4 years ago. My second boy with the same insurance, at the same hospital with the same smokin hot OBGYN cost me a co pay of $500 plus an additional $1400. This is due to Obama care. It's a joke and I know there is nothing I can do about it except fork over my hard earned money to pay for the lazy ass (thank you boissal) Americans who want everything given to them and feel entitled to it. All Obama care is doing is taking away from the hard working Americans to give to the lazy fat ones.

Well I need to get back to work watching the finals :D

An iced mocha sounds amazing right now!!

Gentlemen, it is not often I make such a request, but take a few minutes to reread your posts and then ask if they are really on topic. If not please delete them and instead focus your efforts on comments to the Forest Service. Thanks.

Allen Sanderson wrote:Gentlemen, it is not often I make such a request, but take a few minutes to reread your posts and then ask if they are really on topic. If not please delete them and instead focus your efforts on comments to the Forest Service. Thanks.

Bravo, sir.