Climbing without health insurance.

Taylor-B. wrote: Read this one!!!

+1 on that article

Gist of the article is that if you're uninsured you'll pay the highest tier of medical rates, and that the rates don't follow any logic is determination of cost. If you're lucky you can get the hospital to renegotiate your bill, but that still leaves you with a huge out of pocket tab.

I would recommend at least ER coverage. That's what I did when I quit my job and took a 9 month break to climb.

craghead wrote: hehehe another check mark to the list of climbing partners interview. Maybe they expect you to be nice and pay their bills for them, matey? You crack me up!

some people expect ya to "help em out" ... thats the way the world works

i prefer not to dump people i just climbed with knowing they cant pay for basic care ... which is what youll be doing if they have no coverage

on road trips to the states, i insist everyone i travel with has coverage ... if you dont and something serious happens, yr screwed .... im not driving your ass back home from yosemite to vancouver with (insert serious injury) without medical attention because you didnt pay the ~3$ a day for coverage and didnt want a big bill ...

s.price wrote: One more thing. Do they not teach punctuation up north?

mmmm grammar MP nazis

;)

Tom-o Erectus wrote: P.S. If your injuries can be "explained" as being caused by a NORMAL athletic passtime

Pastime. Look it up.

bearbreeder wrote: some people expect ya to "help em out" ... thats the way the world works i prefer not to dump people i just climbed with knowing they cant pay for basic care ... which is what youll be doing if they have no coverage on road trips to the states, i insist everyone i travel with has coverage ... if you dont and something serious happens, yr screwed .... im not driving your ass back home from yosemite to vancouver with (insert serious injury) without medical attention because you didnt pay the ~3$ a day for coverage and didnt want a big bill ... mmmm grammar MP nazis ;)

$3 a day?! whoa! point me in their direction. And you will not just dump your ass broke climbing partner cos he can't bay his bills?! Must be very nice to be wealthy like you.... the more I think about it actually the more I realize that Canada could be the next happening thing: free healthcare, speak English(mostly), good ice climbing, and same nursing lisence as in US! Your country has a lot of potential, you may be seeing the Stones in Vancouver in the near future.

craghead wrote: $3 a day?! whoa! point me in their direction. And you will not just dump your ass broke climbing partner cos he can't bay his bills?! Must be very nice to be wealthy like you.... the more I think about it actually the more I realize that Canada could be the next happening thing: free healthcare, speak English(mostly), good ice climbing, and same nursing lisence as in US! Your country has a lot of potential, you may be seeing the Stones in Vancouver in the near future.

i tend to keep in contact with many of the people ive climbed with ... and climb with em again

so yes i prefer not to just kick em to the curb with no insurance should something happen ... which means i prefer to climb with people with medical ...

i find that those that cant afford basic insurance, also cant afford to contribute much to gas, food or to cover their share of lost/dropped gear ... ive stopped climbing with people who cant afford the basics ... but somehow they can afford that nice shiny dead bird cragging pack or that patagucci jacket

wealthy? ... LOL ... ive been unemployed and climbing the last 3 years ... wealthy is the last thing that comes to mind ... i just saved up when i could and didnt spend all that $$$$$ on booze like some people =P

people can do what they want and climb with who they want ... i just prefer not to climb with people who refuse to have certain things ....

and yes if yr traveling to the states from canuckistan it costs ~3$ per day for travel insurance ... if youd rather have that latte a day than healthcare, yr choice ...

;)

..that -stan country does not sound appealing. I have climbed on different occasions with many different people and parties and to ask them about their financial situation or health insurance was the last thing on my mind. My criteria is the personality and skill level, along with the person's climbing agenda, not their credit report. I don't expect people to bail me out neither do I intend to bail everybody I climb with financially.
If your climbing partners are your close friends that is a different story though. You may wish to help them out because of your kindness which is cool.
I have recently received a huge ER bill for a bag of salt water pretty much , after they charged my insurance already and I am pissed. I realize getting older in this country is looking bleak when it comes to health care. I hear stories of 80somethings paying $600 a month to supplement their medicare and it makes me gringe.

Matt Roberts wrote: Pastime. Look it up.

I stan currected.
It was up waay passed my nermal beddtime.

kubes wrote:No health insurance? Bad idea. The majority of bankruptcies in this country are due to unpaid medical bills.

What's also true is that a majority people in bankruptcies for medical bills HAD insurance at the time of their accident or illness. This is caused by a combination of high out of pocket expenses as well as yearly and lifetime benefit limits. With obamacare phasing out benefit limits, perhaps this startling statistic will take a turn for the better.

I'm in the same boat the thread author is in. I have insurance and can't afford to use it. I suffered a bad shoulder injury in December. It's still painful as hell, still catching, clicking and popping, I'm still having trouble sleeping. I'm probably a good example of someone who surgery would help. Unfortunately, my out of pocket maximum is over 10% of my yearly income. Recovery time would put me out of work for 10-12 weeks, causing me to lose over 10% of my yearly income(this is with short term disability).

Plenty of my friends ski and snowboard without insurance. Some of them are more cautious, but most aren't. We all hurt ourselves, but I've never been asked to cover their bills. If someone asked me if I had insurance as a precursor to climbing with them, I'd tell them to mind their own business. Whether I have insurance or not, or whether I can afford to use my insurance or not, has nothing to do with whether we will be safe that day.

-Nick

The trick is not get injured... if you take a big enough fall, then you die. Its the under30' falls you need insurance for .

1 If health insurance changes your climbing safety mindset, you should re think climbing. Any serious climbing injury will be with you for the rest of your life whether you have insurance or not.

2 Imagine how much safer the roads would be if auto insurance did not exist and everyone had to pay for their own driving mistakes?

3 Bearbreeder. Partner not having insurance? Really? Having insurance has no affect on receiving rescue and getting into an emergency room.

4 Health insurance and healthcare is a mess. Both were much more affordable 30 years ago before the government got involved. It can only get worse at this time.

5 Jim. Nobody can take your home due to failure to pay your medical bills.

In grad school imwa underinsured and when an uninsured, drunk driver hit me when. i wasout running, the bills that I was responsible were HUGE....

Now I have good insurance, and 2 mos ago wrecked my my mountain bike ( going pretty slow no less)and broke C4-C7 in my neck. I wa in and out of the hospital quite a bit until I had surgery to put a plate to tie the vertabra together, and the 4 days in the hospital post usurgery) I maxed out on my responsibilities ( at $700+ ) but i am keeping track of the total bills, which are currently in excess of $50,000.

I am luck since I should e paralyzed, since C7 was pushed half way into my spinal column. If that was the case I'vd expect bills of $200,000-$400,000...

No thanks.... I like my insurance.

chuck claude wrote:In grad school imwa underinsured and when an uninsured, drunk driver hit me when. i wasout running, the bills that I was responsible were HUGE.... Now I have good insurance, and 2 mos ago wrecked my my mountain bike ( going pretty slow no less)and broke C4-C7 in my neck. I wa in and out of the hospital quite a bit until I had surgery to put a plate to tie the vertabra together, and the 4 days in the hospital post usurgery) I maxed out on my responsibilities ( at $700+ ) but i am keeping track of the total bills, which are currently in excess of $50,000. I am luck since I should e paralyzed, since C7 was pushed half way into my spinal column. If that was the case I'vd expect bills of $200,000-$400,000... No thanks.... I like my insurance.

Glad to hear you are doing better and we're wishing you a speedy recovery Chuck.

Tom-o Erectus wrote: I stan currected. It was up waay passed my nermal beddtime.

2shay

I have health and dental insurance, but last week a rock hit me in the face. Had to gt my teeth put back in place, stitches, and follow up appointments. After one week, I owe 2,000- and only 2 of my 4 bills showed up so far. I'm a teacher and this is going end up wiping out my savings and travel budget until next year.
It would have been much worse without insurance, but I am lucky this happened now while I have money in savings, and not last year when I was super in debt.

Just curious, how much do people pay in monthly insurance premiums. How about annual?

Have you considered just putting that money in a savings account for a rainy day. Does that take too much discipline for most Americans? Most any doctor's office or hospital will give you a cash discount. I have received as much as 40% off for full payments.

Most people that go bankrupt do so because of medical bills. And most of them did so with health insurance!
Our healthcare is all fugged up!

i pay $68 monthly just for myself, i am not sure about deductables, and have not used their dental yet. Although i am only one day from being uninsured again if my work contract does not renew...I still prefer clinics to family practice docs. They have a fresh look.

Greg D wrote:Just curious, how much do people pay in monthly insurance premiums. How about annual? Have you considered just putting that money in a savings account for a rainy day. Does that take too much discipline for most Americans? Most any doctor's office or hospital will give you a cash discount. I have received as much as 40% off for full payments.

I pay about $55 dollars a month for a plan that has a $2500 deductible. Its a cheap plan and doesn't cover doctors offices/prescriptions and stuff like that but I got it for catastrophic injuries.

So $55 a month is like $600 a year.... save that money for ten years and you have saved a whopping $6,000. You would blow through that money in one trip to an ER, so no your idea is stupid.

Nice try ripping on Americans for being "undisciplined" but its better than being a moron and thinking $6,000 grand in savings is going to cover any sort of medical costs, thats funny!

just using BSeridans example of 6k annually on premium payments: if instead of paying for your health care premium and you just saved that money, then you did get injured, even remotely serious, theres no way the 6k will cover it all.

I work in the health insurance industry, claims specifically so i see 5 days a week bills/claim and medical records alot. providers, i think, are out of control with how much they charge now a days. a 5 minute "lifeline" 911 helicopter ride (not uncommon with rock climbing rescues) will run you a minimum 15,000.00. minimum, usually theyre 20,000+. they will, 99.9% chance, be out of network and be able to "balance bill" you (the difference between the health carriers allowed and the providers charge).

having health insurance in america does matter and it does make a difference, even though sometimes its hard to see how.

We really need a single payer national healthcare system in this country and we'll continue to be the laughing stock of the first world until we do. You can try to be as safe as you want, but without health insurance, an injury that requires any professional treatment could severely set you back financially, that is if you chose to pay for treatment over taking the pain. Climbers should do something about this; learn more here and take action: healthcare-now.org/whats-si…