Bail webbing/cord

I'm sure this has been covered many times on here, but after searching for a while I couldn't find exactly what I was after.

I usually carry 20 feet or so of 1" webbing to sling trees etc. for bailing/getting off a climb where existing anchors/tat seems sketch. 1" seems like overkill since I am just statically loading the anchor with less than 300 pounds. Even 5mm cord is rated to 5.8 kN, which seems more than plenty for a static load of that weight. My question is, what's the lightest weight cord/webbing you feel comfortable bailing on?

I carry a 22' cordalette 8mm. I cut pieces off for bailing or backing up single rap rings. When it gets too short I tie it like a rabbit runner. 1/2" nylon sling is fine for rap anchors/bail slings.

I routinely use 9/16 tubular webbing

Jesus! 22' of 8mm cord? I've been climbing nearly 10 years and I could count the pieces of gear I've left on one hand(mostly biners). I've left about ~10 slings which work just fine plus I always have them and I never need to bring extra shit. Sometimes, as I'm always re-learning, less is more. If I ever had to leave a sinifigant amount of cord, I'd just leave my belay cordalette, but I'd never cut it to use bits and pieces as I saw fit.

Ryan N wrote:Jesus! 22' of 8mm cord? I've been climbing nearly 10 years and I could count the pieces of gear I've left on one hand(mostly biners). I've left about ~10 slings which work just fine plus I always have them and I never need to bring extra shit. Sometimes, as I'm always re-learning, less is more. If I ever had to leave a sinifigant amount of cord, I'd just leave my belay cordalette, but I'd never cut it to use bits and pieces as I saw fit.

Ryan, to me length I bring depends on route. If I am climbing in a well traveled area, most likely I will not need to bring anything, but if I am climbing in a less well traveled area and do 3 rappels off trees, I really don't want to leave all my cordellette there. 3 trees, 6-7 feet each means 20 feet or so. I really think length that you bring depends on where you are climbing. My real question is diameter, if I brought 5 mm cord to bail on, would that be sketch? Seems plenty strong to me. I'm 170 pounds + a generous 60 pounds of gear/clothes/water, thats only 230 pounds, F=ma so, gravitational acceleration is 9.8m/s or so, gives you a force of approximately 1 kN, its rated to 5.8kN. I know that I might bounce some on rap, which would increase forces, but that is almost a 5 fold margin of error.

I am not even close to an engineer, please point out flaws in my logic/math, or tell me why I will probably die if I bail on 5mm cord.

I'm just being hard on you. I use 5mil cord and my GF and I routinely simul-rap off that cord. If I'm rapping off trees, I don't generally sling them. If it looks like pulling the rope will be hard, I will, but as long as you make sure the knot(if your doing double raps) is free of obstruction(and have you partner test pull it when they get to next rap) then you'll be fine. Webbing sucks to cut and I think it gets sun rot much quicker. Bottom line, don't leave anything if there is a way to avoid it.

Ryan N wrote:If I'm rapping off trees, I don't generally sling them.

Good point, I occasionally do this, but not often. I am always concerned about getting pine sap on my rope. Not sure if that really does anything to it, but its annoying.

Ryan N wrote:I use 5mil cord and my GF and I routinely simul-rap off that cord.

Thanks, looks like I will grab some 5mm cord.

Sap has never been an issue. You can tell if it will be. Your generally not rapping off sap producing trees. For example, pine trees need some decent ground for roots to grow. 5 mil is hard to find. Mine is like the Bluewater Titan cord, but different brand(not sure brand). 6.5 is easier to find and just as light and useful. The titan cord is expensive but BOBMER! Climb safe.

I started carrying a "tat kit" consisting of about 10 ft of 1" webbing , a rap ring and now a quick link. Knife is a must too. We had to leave tat on rappels along with biners on several occasions, which prompted the creation of the "kit". When it hangs on my harness I don't even notice it anymore.

Ryan N wrote:If I'm rapping off trees, I don't generally sling them. Bottom line, don't leave anything if there is a way to avoid it.

Please use webbing/cord when rapping off trees!

Repeated pulling a rope around a tree can kill it.

KevinCO wrote: Please use webbing/cord when rapping off trees! Repeated pulling a rope around a tree can kill it.

++1

A dead tree is no good to rap on in the future, no matter its diameter.

I'm always suprised at how cheap people are to leave $10 sling and rap ring when it comes to your life, or the life of a convenient rap tree, when most people routininely waste $10 on other things.

If you don't like the way a bunch of old webbing looks, cut off the ratty ones and leave your fresh webbing.

It seems to me that weather you leave a piece of webbing/cord, or sling your rope around the tree, your impacting that tree. I've never come across a tree that has had any sort of noticeable wear from rope burn. I have however come across MANY trees with a clusterfuck of webbing/cord that seems to never go away, it just gets added to. To each their own...

Please use webbing/cord when rapping off trees

+1

left slings are a (potential) visual impact, while pulling ropes repeatedly around a tree can ring it/harm it...

Ryan N wrote:It seems to me that weather you leave a piece of webbing/cord, or sling your rope around the tree, your impacting that tree. I've never come across a tree that has had any sort of noticeable wear from rope burn. I have however come across MANY trees with a clusterfuck of webbing/cord that seems to never go away, it just gets added to. To each their own...

I have come across many trees climbing in CT that have been worn all the way through the bark from repeated repels. Please use a piece of webbing and remove any dangerous looking piece to stop a less experienced climber from potentially falling to his death.

CallumRD1 wrote: I have come across many trees climbing in CT that have been worn all the way through the bark from repeated repels. Please use a piece of webbing and remove any dangerous looking piece to stop a less experienced climber from potentially falling to his death.

i have never seen anything like that...oh yea its CT!

Ryan N wrote:I've never come across a tree that has had any sort of noticeable wear from rope burn. I have however come across MANY trees with a clusterfuck of webbing/cord that seems to never go away, it just gets added to. To each their own...

The impact of left tat can be fixed with a knife. Rope burns through a tree cannot.

It shouldn't be "to each their own" on this, but agreed upon by all (if its a route that sees any sort of traffic).

I normally carry some spare 5mm cord and consider that perfectly adequate. I can't see the point in carrying anything thicker.

For general cragging I have around 3-5 metres on the back of my harness but for alpine and winter routes I'd probably have another 10+ metres in my sac.

I carry the gear that I feel comfortable with. I have never had to bail on a route because I had an extra 16 ounces of gear on me. I usually have quick links to leave on trees or other fixed rap anchors. I don't like it when old trees that grow in very tenuous spots are killed by jerks who are more concerned with what they can get away with gearwise, than about the environment that they recreate in. It is very cheap and easy to take down and replace, or add to, tat.

Ryan N wrote:It seems to me that weather you leave a piece of webbing/cord, or sling your rope around the tree, your impacting that tree. I've never come across a tree that has had any sort of noticeable wear from rope burn. I have however come across MANY trees with a clusterfuck of webbing/cord that seems to never go away, it just gets added to. To each their own...

I have seen it tons of times as well. Stop being a gumby and use a sling. And if the tree is a "clusterfuck" of slings why is it such a big deal for you to remove them and leave one? As many people have already pointed out to you a loose sling on a tree does little damage to it while pulling your rope does a lot... See a difference yet?

BSheriden wrote: And if the tree is a "clusterfuck" of slings why is it such a big deal for you to remove them and leave one?

Precisely.

These days in the UK I'll generally always make an effort to remove old tat as on many cliffs there is an unsightly mess of it.

It's common practice around these parts to leave/replace chord/slings. This can be accomplished with a trimmed piece of cordalette or sling and a bail biner without adding any 'kit' to your system.