Opening a Rock Climbing Gym

I am considering opening a rock climbing gym in Yakima WA. I do not have any experience in working in / running a gym, although before I moved I was in the gym quite a bit. Hopefully someone with some experience is on the forum. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a few topics.

What is a reasonable amount of money to start a gym (obviously depends on the gym size, but i am thinking 30ft tall 10,000 sq ft).

How do you go about finding route setters. What is a fair wage for route setting?

What are some good ways to feel our market demands? Currently there are no gyms in my area.

How much does a gym pay in insurance?

I imagine the highest monthly costs after startup are in this order
1. Rent
2. Staff
3. Insurance
4. Gear (replacement ropes / holds / ...)

I understand that the cost will very by region, but I am looking for general ideas. Will it cost $100/mo. for insurance or $10000/mo..

Thanks for your time.

nate0402 wrote:I am considering opening a rock climbing gym in Yakima WA. I do not have any experience in working in / running a gym, although before I moved I was in the gym quite a bit. Hopefully someone with some experience is on the forum. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a few topics. What is a reasonable amount of money to start a gym (obviously depends on the gym size, but i am thinking 30ft tall 10,000 sq ft). How do you go about finding route setters. What is a fair wage for route setting? What are some good ways to feel our market demands? Currently there are no gyms in my area. How much does a gym pay in insurance? I imagine the highest monthly costs after startup are in this order 1. Rent 2. Staff 3. Insurance 4. Gear (replacement ropes / holds / ...) I understand that the cost will very by region, but I am looking for general ideas. Will it cost $100/mo. for insurance or $10000/mo.. Thanks for your time.

Whoa... there are a lot of questions there that only serious research can give you answers to.

I highly suggest you become a member of the Climbing Wall Association and avail yourself of their resources.

climbingwallindustry.org/in…

You can also get some inside info on setting and gyms in general at RouteSetter.org

routesetter.org/forum/index…

Good luck.

I own a gym, as well as provide the software that runs 75% of the climbing gyms in North America ( rockgympro.com ).

Sadly, I don't think the demographics of Yakima can support a climbing gym. Not enough 20-40 year old, "active" types... sure there are some, but you need alot of those to support a climbing gym.

Your best bet - create a bouldering coop. Here's a model:

slo-opclimbing.org/

Best of luck!
Andy

Andy Laakmann wrote:Your best bet - create a bouldering coop. Here's a model: slo-opclimbing.org/ Best of luck! Andy

Good thoughts from Andy. Also checkout the Denver Bouldering Club denverboulderingclub.com/.

Insurance is based on revenue. And it's not nearly as expensive as people imagine it to be. The Climbing Wall Association works in coordination with Veracity Insurance to ensure that for-profit climbing gyms can get general liability insurance at reasonable rates: climbingwallindustry.org/in… Don't be shy about contacting Veracity.

It's a business and you need to do the business homework first to see if it can be a profitable "business". Start with a valid business plan - talk to the bank for financing - the insurance company for costs - gas, electric, and water for business rates. Rent in an appropriate building - 30' ceilings aren't everywhere you look and could be hard to find without a huge square footage area to heat and cool. Demographics of the community need to be studied, you are a long way from worrying about route setters. Start out with the same thinking as if you were opening a retail store of some kind and go from there.

Nate,
(1) Demographics matter. I know nothing of Yakima, but any business requires customers. So do some looking & comparing to other businesses.
(2) start on at least a sketch of a business plan. Don't ask a bank. They don't give a shit about helping you write a business plan. Instead, seek a small business development center in Yakima (look at the sba's website to find one). Also, go to Barnes & Noble & look at books about writing business plans.
(3) Call people and ask questions. The industry is pretty cool. Various owners will share varying amounts. When you talk to an owner who will share nothing, it is rare enough to be shocking.
(4) All of the wall companies either have consultants on staff or work with them. Call & chat with them. There are lots of basics to be learned. There are also some independent gym consultants out there. Every conversation helps.

I think that you'll find the biggest difficulties to be:
1) space--especially for a rope gym. 30' clear is much harder to find in a non-crime-ridden place than you might expect. bouldering gym is much easier.
2) financing: if you plan on building the walls yourself, plan on ~$15-$20/sq ft. If you are going to have a wall builder put them up, plan on $40. Then add another $50k or so for all the other stuff. For a bouldering gym for which you are building the walls, you can probably do it for $300k (remember to have operating cash on hand!). Also, don't expect much help from banks. Maybe $100k or so. You will have to raise most of the money in equity. This is not as easy as it sounds unless you have good connections into the trustafarian community. (in which case, pls drop me an email).

None of this should be seen as discouraging. But its not easy, and as someone posted above, you are a long way from worrying about setters.

Hi Nate.

As an entrepreneur and small business owner, I think that it is cool that you want to be your own boss and open a business that is associated with an activity that you love. There will be a lot of folks that will tell you all the reasons your idea will fail and why you "can't do that." One of the many skills that will serve you well is being able to determine which of the naysayers are full of shit (a lot of them) and which have valid point that you need to address. The latter can be invaluable. After reading the rest of my post. i'll leave it to you to decide which category I fall into.

As I read your posts and the questions you ask, I quickly came to the conclusion that you not only don't know a lot about running or opening a gym, but you also probably don't know much about starting a business. That is ok. All business owners were there at one point. I sure was! There are a ton of resources out there that can help you.

I would start by reading a few books on starting and running a small business. Search out local organizations that can provide you with support. The SBA is a good place to start, but there are many state, county or city organizations that provide similar and sometimes better support. Learn about how to write a business plan, and then write one for your business. Take the time to really do a good job. A business plan isn't just a tool to help you get money; by writing a good plan YOU learn what you need to do to be successful and hopefully identify the major issues that will determine your success or failure.

There are a lot of good suggestions in the posts above. Get involved with industry groups. Reach out to individuals that own similar businesses in non-competing markets. Think of good question to ask. Soak up all the information that is out there. Figure out what you need to do, then do it...

Good luck with your business. I look forward to hearing about your progress!

I saw that you were interested in opening a gym in the Yakima area. I am located in the Tri Cities and have been looking for information to do the same. Contact me if you are still seeking to explore options!

Any updates on this?

I'm looking at doing the same, although I am starting with a major leg up. I'm looking at starting a gym on the east coast with a big surfer/young athlete/hippy population, no other competing businesses, a 10k sq ft , 35ft wall space with the rent already paid for, and a few people (who god bless 'em have not much of an idea about climbing) who want to help out with building and possibly financing.

I want to start as a non-profit, I don't envision going down the commercial gym path (I kind of detest that business model, especially in metropolitan areas), and I want a place where someone serious can stay in winter shape, and stressed-out struggling parents can drop their kids off on a thursday for some extreme daycare.

my issue is that I am a busy guy lately, and I need people to run the gym smoothly while I'm gone.. in anybody's REAL life experience, how long can one expect to find employees to hire and train, and do any of you have any good beta on materials (framing, plans) and costs? This info would be super helpful to show up with when I start begging around for startup money.

Forrest . wrote: Any updates on this?

I'm looking at doing the same, although I am starting with a major leg up. I'm looking at starting a gym on the east coast with a big surfer/young athlete/hippy population, no other competing businesses, a 10k sq ft , 35ft wall space with the rent already paid for, and a few people (who god bless 'em have not much of an idea about climbing) who want to help out with building and possibly financing.

I want to start as a non-profit, I don't envision going down the commercial gym path (I kind of detest that business model, especially in metropolitan areas), and I want a place where someone serious can stay in winter shape, and stressed-out struggling parents can drop their kids off on a thursday for some extreme daycare.

my issue is that I am a busy guy lately, and I need people to run the gym smoothly while I'm gone.. in anybody's REAL life experience, how long can one expect to find employees to hire and train, and do any of you have any good beta on materials (framing, plans) and costs? This info would be super helpful to show up with when I start begging around for startup money.

What do you mean by "how long can one expect..."?

Eldorado Wall Company is a great resource. They've seen it all...

Forrest . wrote: east coast with a big surfer/young athlete/hippy population

Where on the east coast?

"Surfer, young athlete, hippy".
Don't ask me to invest if that's your potential customer base.

Call me, I have a million dollars sitting in wait for you.

At this point I have talked to at least a hundred people interested in opening a gym, 99.9% aren't serious and seem to simply be looking for an escape from their cubicle lifestyle. Here's what you need to know:

-Owning a gym, like any business, is work. You won't be escaping talking to and dealing with people you don't like.

-You get what you pay for. Pay minimum wage and you get minimum effort. It's up to you to fill in the gaps.

-In the beginning you won't make a ton of money. Get used to Ramen.

-Construction is a bitch and cheap labor equals cheap results.

-None of your friends will willingly pay for a membership.

-Put any deals or partnerships in writing. Pay a lawyer to do it or you might as well just spit in your palms.

-"Business Plans" are just creative writing.

-Have your shit together and present yourself professionally or nobody will take you seriously regardless of how polished your "vision" is.

Godspeed.

I don't own a gym but I do own a small business. I never had a business plan, but I did learn about small business finance via books and websites. I'd highly recommend reading a book called "profit first for microgyms" You can find it on amazon. it does a great job of outlining why small gyms tend to go out of business or the owners burnout. Read it BEFORE you open your gym. All that being said, the town I'm in doesn't have gym, so I built some walls in the back of my shop and open it up a couple days a week for people/friends to meet and session and talk shit. Seems to work, and I don't have to worry about making money from it... Owning a business that is based on your passion can really extinguish your passion.

Tradiban wrote:

What do you mean by "how long can one expect..."?

I was just generally poking around, seeing what kind of experience people have had in hiring workers. I'm sort of running on a time constraint, but before people shoot me down for being not "into" the project enough, I am. 

as for the young hipster surfer comment, It's just a basic outline of the locals. They're psyched to try something new, and I've got a bunch of "real" climbers interested in helping out, which is nice. one guy has spent a ton of time in yosemite and done FA's in some sweet spots. 

I suppose, in essence, what I was trying to dig for was; does anybody have experience hiring workers? if so, how long did it take? and what were some notable hoops to jump thru regarding your local laws etc.?

Thanks for reviving the dead. it means so much to me. 

Levi Kepsel wrote: I don't own a gym but I do own a small business. I never had a business plan, but I did learn about small business finance via books and websites. I'd highly recommend reading a book called "profit first for microgyms" You can find it on amazon. it does a great job of outlining why small gyms tend to go out of business or the owners burnout. Read it BEFORE you open your gym. All that being said, the town I'm in doesn't have gym, so I built some walls in the back of my shop and open it up a couple days a week for people/friends to meet and session and talk shit. Seems to work, and I don't have to worry about making money from it... Owning a business that is based on your passion can really extinguish your passion.

Thanks for the book recommendation! will check it out. cheers

Master Beta wrote: Any updates on this?

I'm looking at doing the same, although I am starting with a major leg up. I'm looking at starting a gym on the east coast with a big surfer/young athlete/hippy population, no other competing businesses, a 10k sq ft , 35ft wall space with the rent already paid for, and a few people (who god bless 'em have not much of an idea about climbing) who want to help out with building and possibly financing.

I want to start as a non-profit, I don't envision going down the commercial gym path (I kind of detest that business model, especially in metropolitan areas), and I want a place where someone serious can stay in winter shape, and stressed-out struggling parents can drop their kids off on a thursday for some extreme daycare.

my issue is that I am a busy guy lately, and I need people to run the gym smoothly while I'm gone.. in anybody's REAL life experience, how long can one expect to find employees to hire and train, and do any of you have any good beta on materials (framing, plans) and costs? This info would be super helpful to show up with when I start begging around for startup money.

Hey, where are you thinking of doing this on the East Coast? I am in Wilmington, NC and keep on going back to this idea here. I think it would be great for the community. I have no idea where to start but just curious as to where you are located?