Getting older and (un)realistic expectations.

jhn payne wrote:Geez, well first off if you think you're old then you are, and it seems you've convinced yourself that somehow 40 is old. I didn't start climbing until I was 36, it always seemed everyone I climbed with was younger but I really didn't dwell on it.I established 5.12's and probably my hardest 5.12c at 49, appropriately named "Elders of The Tribe". I'm in my 60's and still send an occasional 5.12. Having said all that, I'm a realist and some body types fit this game better than others, genetics, lean muscle mass, flexibility all factor in whether we like it or not, I've known lots of climbers some are blessed with the above and some are not, training, diet and a strong commitment will go a long way, but please quit thinking of yourself as nearing 40 thus you're old.

What type of training did you do when you started out at age 36? How much were you able to climb in a week? I think there are a lot of us 40ish guys that are starting from ground zero and would like some tips on gains. Not a good comparison for a 40+ person who has been climbing 20 years. I think its been said, but I'm realizing I have a long way to go with my footwork. Thanks.

Mike Belu wrote: What type of training did you do when you started out at age 36? How much were you able to climb in a week? I think there are a lot of us 40ish guys that are starting from ground zero and would like some tips on gains. Not a good comparison for a 40+ person who has been climbing 20 years. I think its been said, but I'm realizing I have a long way to go with my footwork. Thanks.

The first thing I worked on was cardio, I started running, not tons but four to five mile runs, then the usual BITD stuff like climbing a knotted rope, built a Bachar ladder and finally got a hang board. Climbed a lot at least two if not three days a week, but I was never a boulderer, if I was at the stone I wanted to be going up. I built my first home wall around 1990 which I think really helped, started with a 10deg. and added a 30 deg. Nothing beats yarding a lot of stone.

"First, you'll never keep up with the 20 something unless you are a genetic freak. A 13 year old girl just did nose in a day, while donini and lowe did not. It's completely unrealistic to expect to keep up with the young guns."

I do not disagree with you, but the example is kinda unfair. Kara Herson was tied to end of JIM HERSON, If Donini had tied into Kara as they passed by he would have made it to the top a few min. after they did. Jim Herson did the Nose in <4 hrs back in 2001.

Nonetheless the fact that a 13 year old seconded every pitch (no jumaring) is beyond impressive in its own right.

I am approaching 42 and yes sometimes I ask myself "am I "old" to keep pushing it?"
Then I look at some crippled up crusty oldtimers coming down some epic shit and I say "no" I'm gonna be getting the sufficient rest, nutrition and training to push myself till I no longer suck air.

Bill Matlin wrote:"First, you'll never keep up with the 20 something unless you are a genetic freak.

"Whoever says he can ski as hard at 40 as he did at 20 wasn't a very good skier at 20."
- Warren Miller.

I'm not saying I've got a foot in teh grave, but surely nobody here will deny that at 40, you are past your prime... which for males is generally accepted to be about 25.

Is it unrealistic? Absolutely not.

There are countless individuals in your situation (40ish w/family and kids) whose athletic accomplishments would be impressive even if they were in their 20s w/no responsibilities.

They go to great lengths to make sure that they're able to fit their workouts into their days. They have other people watch their kids when they work out. They've accepted that they may only see their spouses while getting ready in the morning. And, they stay in touch with only those friends they are able to interact with while participating in their sport of choice.

Is it realistic? That's an easy question to answer. The more difficult question is, "do you want to make the sacrifices that are necessary?"

OP here.

I think I'm pretty much hearing what I expected, which is good. Glad to hear many of you old dogs are still climbing hard (and getting better).

jim.dangle wrote:...one of the nice things about getting older is that you don't give a shit what other's think of you as much.

This has to be one of the best things about getting older (and yes, 40 isn't that old compared to some of you old farts). But what I'm talking about has nothing to do with what other people think - it's me feeling like a turd when I can't keep up, and frustrated that I always feel fried.

There seems to be two groups - those who are happy to be climbing regardless of the grade, and those who seem to be focused on pushing grades. Despite trying to be more like the first group, I clearly fit into the second. What I find most fulfilling is climbing at my limit, whatever it is at the time. That's not to say a day of cruising isn't fun - I just prefer hard (for me) redpointing.

For those asking:
sport 12+
V4-6 (although I don't really know, as I haven't been bouldering outdoors in a year)
occasionally supportive wife
house that needs lots of love
commute on my bike semi-regularly for cardio
in decent shape
family is priority, not many other distractions other than the house

I'm still improving, just not as as fast as I'd like, and I think that expectations might need to be adjusted. Every time I climb outside, I'm a little stronger - it's probably because the days are few and far between, so there are marginal gains from outdoor session to outdoor session. I guess that I should be grateful that I'm improving at all.

The main thing seems to be recovery. If I boulder every second day at the gym, or even three days per week, I get thrashed. I have a hard time backing off and doing light days, and then I pay the price for it. I'd like to be climbing at my limit (like the young guns do) every session, but when I do I'm always sore and end up feeling weaker for it over the longer term. And I think that's where age comes into play (and probably the lack of sleep, jobs, parenthood, renos, etc.). Or maybe not. Maybe I'm just being goon and need to be a little smarter with my gym sessions, as many of you have suggested. I climbed a bit when I was much younger (early 20s) but didn't get back into it until 4 years ago, so I have nothing to compare myself with age-wise (i.e., I don't know how my body would have responded back then - maybe it would have been the same).

I'm 43 and I'm in the best shape of my life and climbing harder than I ever have, although I didn't start until I was 30. I really don't like gyms (of any kind) so I focus on training core in the garage...push-ups, pull-ups, jumping rope, and climbing on my home woody a few days a week, with one day outside over the weekend. It has done wonders for me weight-wise in the past year. I have also found that losing your job and the stress that comes with it is great for losing weight. :-) I'm 10 lbs lighter than I was just 5 weeks ago and almost 20 lbs lighter than I was 15 months ago and it has made a huge difference in my overall physical performance. My motivation to climb has been a struggle recently, though, and I've lost some endurance as a result, but I still feel strong.

Like another poster said, it's all about priorities. You can still be a good dad and throw down at the crags if you make the time to do both. Having a family shouldn't be the end of your climbing days if it means a lot to you. I understand that starting a family can make it hard time-wise, and I was lucky my wife was very supportive of my needs to carress rocks even when my kids were very little. YRMV

Tony B wrote: "Whoever says he can ski as hard at 40 as he did at 20 wasn't a very good skier at 20." - Warren Miller. I'm not saying I've got a foot in teh grave, but surely nobody here will deny that at 40, you are past your prime... which for males is generally accepted to be about 25.

Well Hans set the speed record with Yuji on the NiAD when they were both in their 40's.

Pretty sure the Hubers are still cranking out 14's, and doing some pretty sick alpine routes. No one will argue that your power may not be as good, but I think they forgot to tell Fred Nicole.

It's all about your priorities. Decide to be passionate and dedicated and you will improve. As for your schedule, bouldering every other day is just asking for trouble. Focus on quality, 2 good power sessions a week is all I was ever good for. The only way to out climb the 20 yr olds is to use your head. Don't be the guy who thrashes on the problems and works out all the beta. Be the guy watching all the beta then flashing all the problems. Focus on YOUR weakness, have a plan for every session, and make every session count.

PeckerHead wrote:I climb exclusively at a bouldering gym despite me being primarily an outdoor route climber, as it allows for a more flexible schedule (no partner needed) and is more efficient.

have you looked into finding gyms in your area with auto belays? One of the greatest benefits to these machines is being able to climb alone and not having to spend half of your limited amount of time belaying your partner, and you get all the variety of top-rope climbing. I'm actually part of a group doing an 8-week training session using auto belays - it's going great so far and has really helped me improve in the short amount of time we've been doing this!

We've got every skill level from "I've never touched a rock before" to the guy on a 5.12 trying to send a 5.13. I highly recommend checking it out for some inspiration and training ideas - reachyourpeak.autobelay.com

Just had the best year of climbing of my life grade wise at 41, 23 years into my career. This year, 42, I'm nursing blown out shoulders, but they are getting better and just did a 10 pitch 5.11 in the Black no problem.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light!!

I'm a couple years younger than Kalous, but similar experience right down to nursing some blown up shoulders this year. Last fall was climbing probably as strong as I ever have at 40.

Everyone is different. Different training history, strengths/weaknesses, etc. But one thing I will say that seems universal is: the older we get, the more important it is to not neglect the pre-hab stuff. My shoulder issues flared up IMO because I cut back on my alignment/opposition muscle balance exercises while training just as hard (actually harder, as I increased density this cycle). Luckily, some focused sessions are correcting this before it gets too out of hand.

Small changes seem to make more difference than they used to. E.g. if I'm 10lbs heavy, I can lose 2 v-grades (or more) off my top bouldering level...seems like a lot of performance drop for a mere 10lb but that's about 7% of my bodyweight so it makes sense.

If my diet deviates from my normal routine for a week, I feel that too and it shows up in my training results.

The last several months are the first real plateau/regression I've had in the last 5-6 years or so. It's depressing. The things that keep me from getting too down about it are that I can point to the causes and correct them (it's bodyweight and prehab, work related and general life stress rather than inevitable decline due to simple aging).

OP checking in.

Three outdoor climbing days so far this year, which I consider a victory. All three days were great. Sent a project first go that eluded me last year. Even better, took my oldest girl (she's two and a half) climbing on real rock for the first time. I went with no expectations and did not push her at all, but she demanded to get tied in and climb. The kid's fearless. She loved it. Driving back into town in one of my favourite places in the world to be (Sea to Sky highway up to Squamish), with her passed out napping beside me in the passenger car seat, after getting to climb with her (and her liking it), I had one of those euphoric I'm going to piss myself I'm so happy moments. In that moment, all the sacrifices that go along with having kids were worth it and then some.

It seems like climbing routes outdoors might be the great equalizer. What was a big disparity in climbing levels indoors shrunk significantly when I went climbing routes outdoors with one of my young-buck crusher partners. It mostly had to do with the fact that the guy is powerhouse, so is much more suited to bouldering than routes. I'm sure if we went bouldering outdoors, the gap would have been much wider and would have better resembled the pattern indoors. And fuck it, climbing outdoors is just way more fun, so grades matter much less (indoors, I find them motivating, as climbing plastic is training in the end, and its nice to see improvement).

I'm now thinking that body physiology might be much more of an issue than age for me, although age surely plays a factor. My physiology has always been biased towards endurance. I can climb endurance and power-endurance until the cows come home, and not feel beat up. But training strength and power, my weaknesses, wipes me out. I've also discovered that I don't make substantial gains just bouldering as hard as I can. If I throw in a few dedicated hangboarding or campus sessions every couple of months, I see reasonable gains in strength. When I used to go to the gym-gym, the pattern was similar - I had to push really low-low-rep heavy weight (for me) to see any gain in strength.

So, overall, I'm satisfied, and less whining. I'm having fun again, getting stronger (albeit slowly), and stoked climbing might even end up a family activity.

PeckerHead wrote:OP checking in. Three outdoor climbing days so far this year, which I consider a victory. All three days were great. Sent a project first go that eluded me last year. Even better, took my oldest girl (she's two and a half) climbing on real rock for the first time. I went with no expectations and did not push her at all, but she demanded to get tied in and climb. The kid's fearless. She loved it. Driving back into town in one of my favourite places in the world to be (Sea to Sky highway up to Squamish), with her passed out napping beside me in the passenger car seat, after getting to climb with her (and her liking it), I had one of those euphoric I'm going to piss myself I'm so happy moments. In that moment, all the sacrifices that go along with having kids were worth it and then some.

Just gotta say, that was an awesome thing to read and put a smile on my face. Motivation comes from all places! Congrats, dude.

PeckerHead wrote:The main thing seems to be recovery. If I boulder every second day at the gym, or even three days per week, I get thrashed. I have a hard time backing off and doing light days, and then I pay the price for it. I'd like to be climbing at my limit (like the young guns do) every session, but when I do I'm always sore and end up feeling weaker for it over the longer term. And I think that's where age comes into play (and probably the lack of sleep, jobs, parenthood, renos, etc.)

This is key - particularly not continuing your training session until you are thrashed. if you keep doing this, you won't get any stronger, and you will likely end up injured. if you are bouldering hard you should stop when you feel like you are losing some steam.

slim wrote: This is key - particularly not continuing your training session until you are thrashed. if you keep doing this, you won't get any stronger, and you will likely end up injured. if you are bouldering hard you should stop when you feel like you are losing some steam.

Yep, strength/power training is much more about quality than quantity. I've been experimenting recently with split morning/evening sessions with the morning concentrated in campus/fingerboard/bouldering (one area each session) and the evening in endurance roped climbing. The meat of the morning session lasts maybe 40 mins (75-90 mins total) and the evening session is ~ 2 hours. I've been able to recover much faster than a single longer session when I train until exhaustion. It's hard to quantify how effective this training is on real rock, as I'm away from my home crags this season, but I sure feel strong.