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No more fees for Mirror Lake or AF

Original Post
Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

The Forest Service finally got reeled in after way too many lawsuits in other states:

sltrib.com/sltrib/news/5636…

Of course they do not admit it here in Oootah. But one only has to look at the numerous suits the FS lost in Colorado and Arizona.

Arthur · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 136

Does anyone know the definitive word on using the Interagency pass at Mill Creek. The kid at the booth claimed it was county run and managed and that the Forest Service pass held no sway there.

However the USFS lists Mill Creek as one of their fee areas and the first line of the Mill Creek website says it is managed by the USFS.

Uninformed kiosk kid or what?

"Mill Creek Canyon is managed by the U.S. Forest Service." from parks.slco.org/MillcreekCan…

and

Listing local USFS fee areas right under the Interagency pass

fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsin…

Jim Garrett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

The kiosk kid is correct about them not accepting the "America the Beautiful" Interagency Pass In Millcreek Canyon. The reasoning/excuse is that it is some sort of joint management agreement between Salt Lake County and Wasatch National Forest, rather than strictly a Forest Service program. I am up there all the time and it sure looks like the Forest Service is doing all the work; not sure what role the County actually plays. I have fussed at them for years about not taking the Interagency pass and having to buy an additional pass, but apparently they just do not care about my cheap ass whining. Maybe with this new Forest Service attitude about fee areas things will eventually change in Millcreek. I am all for supporting the National Forests and Parks, and always get the annual Interagency Pass, but for many of these fee area programs more of the money goes to collecting and administering the fees than actually goes to useful programs.

Arthur · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 136

Yeah that was the vibe I was getting as well. Thanks for info.

Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541

$6 to get in AF today as climbers (they asked) and a pamphlet I didn't have time to read explaining the new system... Looked like some areas of the canyon will still require paying a fee which is odd since all you'd have to do is tell the booth person you're heading somewhere else.

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Interesting, where were you parking? The FS is probably going to be playing some games about being in a developed vs undeveloped area.

Boissal . · · Small Lake, UT · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 1,541

Between the pullouts for Hell and Cannabis. They asked where we were going and we said climbing somewhere up there. A frantic scramble for lost quarters and other petty change ensued and we barely rounded up the $6...

Garret Nuzzo Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,436

Don't be too quick to complain about fees to use the canyons around SLC. I work for the USFS and know just how hard the people in Mill Creek work to keep the place looking good.

People who are old enough to remember Mill Creek before the fee program can probably provide more details but from my understanding the place was a complete rat hole. The fee dollars collected in Mill Creek are going directly back into the canyon in the form of maintenance (trail, picnic areas, bathrooms, dog poop cleanup, etc). Without the fee program all that maintenance would disappear.

zoso · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2007 · Points: 790

In the case of Millcreek I'll agree. It was a dump.
But $6 for AF is steep. Should be $2-3 tops.

bsmoot · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 3,183

Yeah, I paid $6 too, not realizing I had a National Park pass. don't know if they would have accepted it though.

GRK · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 6,205
bsmoot wrote:Yeah, I paid $6 too, not realizing I had a National Park pass.
noob.
Keny Glasscock · · Salt Lake City · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 95

I've always paid for the yearly pass in Millcreek. Why? Because I use the canyon a lot. I bike, I run my dog, I hike, I climb, I camp in that canyon. My son has gone there all his life from a toddler to now a 21 year old man. The roads are maintained, the areas are clean (but over used) and it's a safe place for my wife to go on her own with the dog. AF wasn't a fee area when I arrived in SLC in 90 so it's nice to see it going back to that somewhat. Mirror Lake Hwy is a different animal. I'd like to see the Ed Abbey approach used there; park at the gate and get in on human power or a horse. Ban all motorized travel. It would then be a totally different place. But that's just an old dudes dreaming. The softer society get the more the land will be abused.
OK I feel better.

Jim Garrett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0
bsmoot wrote:Yeah, I paid $6 too, not realizing I had a National Park pass. don't know if they would have accepted it though.
They do accept the Interagency Pass in AF, Uintas, and Maple, as well as hundreds of other locations around the country. Arthur's original question was not about having to pay a fee in Millcreek, but why they didn't accept the Interagency Pass there, like other FS locations do. I always gladly buy the annual Interagency Pass; it just seems to me that the FS is double-dipping to require an additional pass at that one location.
Arthur · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2008 · Points: 136

That was indeed my feeling, that the USFS was double dipping. I too have owned an Interagecny pass for many years now regardless of how much I was using it. I think I would even be ok with the interagency pass costing a little more (and it has gone up over the years) but making it a truly unlimited Federal Lands pass. On principal I don't think there should be a seperate fee for Mill Creek for what the USFS lists as a Standard Amenity (access). I have no problem paying a la carte for the extras like a camp site or reserving a picnic area but just to head into the canyon seems like gouging. Especially since I don't think they charge if you walk in or ride in on your bike. I suppose I can run Grandeur from the west in protest. Maybe I should check with the Treasury or Interior if they will discount my pass to cover the Mill Creek exclusion.

Time to get fit!!!!

M L · · Sonora, CA · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 165

Isn't Mill Creek Canyon a state run park as far as the roads and structures are concerned?

Interagency passes do not work in State Parks like Mill Creek, Snow Canyon, etc.., but do in federal parks like AF.

Jim Garrett · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 0

No, Mill Creek is not a state park. It is mostly Forest Service land, although it is located in Salt Lake County and I believe there is some county land ownership. All the signage and facilities are standard US Forest Service, all the people working up there are driving Forest Service trucks and wearing Forest Service uniforms, and the cabin owners up there have long term leases with the US Forest Service. On the Wasatch National Forest web site it sure seems like the Forest Service considers Mill Creek Canyon to be an area that they are responsible for. That is why some of us are wondering why they do not accept the Interagency Pass.

bay · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2007 · Points: 20
Garret Nuzzo-Jones wrote:Don't be too quick to complain about fees to use the canyons around SLC...
no shit. +1 on that comment.

yeah, take a look at my native home state (and its neighbor to the south) and all the out-of-control extraneous charges one incurs when recreating on federal and state lands up in Washington State: Interagency Pass, Northwest Forest Pass, Discover Pass, Monument Pass (Mt. St. Helens), Sno-Park Seasonal Permit, Special Groomed Trail Permit, Washington & Oregon Recreation Pass, Oregon Pacific Coast Pass, Weyerhaeuser Recreation Pass (required to access some remote wilderness areas), and on and on and on.....

I/family never had to pay to recreate in that state (other than entrance and climbing permit for MRNP) for the first 25 years of my life. and now after a decade-plus of double/triple taxation, the facilities, services, and security(?), are the same, if not worse in some areas, from what i remember 20 years ago.

if you dont have family/friends who are residents and in possession of the variety of passes, it becomes nearly pointless for a shoestring traveller to recreate in that state.
Garret Nuzzo Jones · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 1,436
Arthur wrote:That was indeed my feeling, that the USFS was double dipping. I too have owned an Interagecny pass for many years now regardless of how much I was using it. I think I would even be ok with the interagency pass costing a little more (and it has gone up over the years) but making it a truly unlimited Federal Lands pass. On principal I don't think there should be a seperate fee for Mill Creek for what the USFS lists as a Standard Amenity (access). I have no problem paying a la carte for the extras like a camp site or reserving a picnic area but just to head into the canyon seems like gouging.
If you're using the Grandeur Peak trail in Mill Creek Canyon you are benefiting from the fee dollars! The Mill Creek crew maintains picnic areas but they also do a significant amount of trail work that would not be able to be done by the very small and overworked trails crew that works out of the Salt Lake Ranger District. If you noticed deadfall cut out, water bars cleaned and portions of the upper trail brushed out then you will have seen their work.
Tyson Taylor · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 70

I don't mind paying for access in popular climbing areas, where some improvement has been done by the agency collecting the money. I think it's a mistake to remove the fee for traveling the loop. The money could go to the roadwork and seasonal cleanup that everyone takes advantage of.
The forest service didn't bolt the routes, or build the trails and landings. Where does the climbers money go? Does it improve the climbing experience? I guess I'd be more upset if I took part in that work. I'm not advocating for change as much as asking for more information. Is there work done by the forest service that enhances AF climbing?

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203

Okay folks time to pay the piper and write some comments otherwise you might continue to pay the FS:

fs.usda.gov/detail/uwcnf/ho…

Note for AF I would like to see a system like Storm Mtn. If you park outside the picnic area and walk in just to climb no fee. But if you so much as put your pack on a picnic table you pay. The system has seemed to work quite well and in fact they allow encourage bathroom usage by climbers even though they are facilities.

Nate_801 · · St. George · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 105

I live in cedar hills right next to AFC and take my young family up the canyon at least twice a week to BBQ, climb, let me boys play in the river, ect. I have no problem paying for the annual pass (I think it's $45 for AFC and $80 for the national pass). That money is used to help maintain and keep the area clean.

If they stop charging a fee will they stop maintaining the area?

It's a beautiful canyon and honestly it only a few dollars! I 100% support the fees and hope they don't get rid of them!

Ps. Get a better job and buy the pass or climb somewhere else if it bothers you that much :/

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northern Utah & Idaho
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