New Gri Gri belay technique vs. Old

The new method seems to be better for people with smaller hands. My girlfriend has a much easier time feeding out slack on an old Grigri by using the new method versus the old one.

Of course, switching to the new Grigri makes it even better.

SCherry wrote:I also find it harder to feed out clipping slack, but perhaps time and a purchase of a Gri Gri 2 will help.

I should clarify my earlier statement of, I find with the Grigri2 the new method works much better for giving slack than the old method. Maybe the smaller size of the device or perhaps because my Grigri2 just isn't as "broken in" yet.

That is to say, the Grigri2 seems to encourage the new method because the original method is more of a pain to feed slack on the Grigri2. The new method works great with the original Grigri for giving out slack. To me it even feels better giving out slack with the original Grigri and the new method.

If it feels difficult to feed out slack with the new method on the original Grigri, it's not likely to feel any better or smoother with the Grigri2.

What's that abbreviation? Oh yeah, YMMV!

Curious if this is an issue. I have been using the old method since gri gris first came out and I recognized their utility, but I realized the other day that everyone else is using the new method, and per recieved comment, that the old method just looks wrong to people who are familiar with the new method. I am switching so as not to cause anyone any grief, but I really never thought the old method created any risk - especially if you had a lot of previous experience with slot devices and reacting properly (sliding your hand out on the brake side) when needed catch a fall.

even though you are disengaging the cam with the new method, the way the rope curls through your hand, along with your grip on it, makes it damn hard to keep the cam disengaged in a fall. Its just your thumb on it, and the added friction of the rope going over the curved part and through you hand is surprisingly enough to maintain control over it in the event of a fall when you are feeding slack. Try taking a controlled fall and having the belayer actively disengage the cam with only their thumb. Obviously back it up (knot, extra person holding the break strand etc), but it works surprisingly well.

The old method is perfectly safe as long as the belayer is paying 100% attention (like they should be). even if they DO blow a clip and fall while you are feeding slack your hand automatically shoots back to the break hand and you let go of the grigri. The deckings obviously happen when there isnt absolute vigilance; the belayer is looking at dem titties over yonder while feeding slack.

• I've never spent significant time with the old grigri, but handling/feeding slack with the new one is a piece of cake after a few minutes getting used to it.

Do people using the new method keep big loops of slack out on the brake side of the rope (not on the climber side)? It seems like unless I do this, it's hard to quickly pay out slack using the new method, as the rope sort of gets pinched between my brake hand and the device. I could also see how this could definitely kink up the rope.

SCherry wrote:I've been using the Gri Gri for over 10 years. Had a gym employee tell me yesterday that the "old style" belay technique was wrong. Petzl used to have video's and posters on its site approving both the new and old style techniques. I called Petzl. They said they now can only recommend the new style technique. It seems to me that in either version you are holding the cam open to pay out slack when the leader is clipping. Defeating the cam when someone falls is the problem. In the new style technique they claim your hand never leaves the brake end of the rope but you're still letting the rope slide through your brake hand and only barely holding on with a couple fingers. In my opinion with either method if you hold open the cam and your leader falls they will deck. Interesting that I never caught Petzl releasing a statement that said the old technique was no good anymore? I'm curious how many of you who have use the Gri Gri for a long time have adopted the new technique?

Im guessing this was Mesa Rim?

Dan Austin wrote:Do people using the new method keep big loops of slack out on the brake side of the rope (not on the climber side)? It seems like unless I do this, it's hard to quickly pay out slack using the new method, as the rope sort of gets pinched between my brake hand and the device. I could also see how this could definitely kink up the rope.

Nope, no big loop. Maybe 3-4"? Never had a problem with the rope kinking, and my main rope is a 9.9 maxim glider which is very stiff and wirey.

Dan Austin wrote:Do people using the new method keep big loops of slack out on the brake side of the rope (not on the climber side)? It seems like unless I do this, it's hard to quickly pay out slack using the new method, as the rope sort of gets pinched between my brake hand and the device. I could also see how this could definitely kink up the rope.

Yup, so annoying.

Phill T wrote:even though you are disengaging the cam with the new method, the way the rope curls through your hand, along with your grip on it, makes it damn hard to keep the cam disengaged in a fall. Its just your thumb on it, and the added friction of the rope going over the curved part and through you hand is surprisingly enough to maintain control over it in the event of a fall when you are feeding slack. Try taking a controlled fall and having the belayer actively disengage the cam with only their thumb. Obviously back it up (knot, extra person holding the break strand etc), but it works surprisingly well. The old method is perfectly safe as long as the belayer is paying 100% attention (like they should be). even if they DO blow a clip and fall while you are feeding slack your hand automatically shoots back to the break hand and you let go of the grigri. The deckings obviously happen when there isnt absolute vigilance; the belayer is looking at dem titties over yonder while feeding slack. *I've never spent significant time with the old grigri, but handling/feeding slack with the new one is a piece of cake after a few minutes getting used to it.

Yup. One could construct a plausible scenario in which case someone keeps the cam disengaged in a fall using the old method, while you just can't keep enough force on the cam to keep it open in a fall with the new method.

Originally started this conversation 2 years ago when the "new technique" was thrust into my face at my gym. Here is my updated take:

New method is fine once you get used to it, but its much easier with the new GriGri2 and with smaller diameter ropes. The other key is making sure the rope is flaked out nicely and in the right spot. If your pile of rope has kinks, or is too far away from where you are standing the chances of short-roping goes way up.

Also every time I go sport climbing I'm taking note of what method people use. I still see way more people using the old method when out at the crags.

Holy thread resurrection!

I learned the new way, but with a GriGri 1 and my ropes are 10.1 & 10.4 Marathons. I find it works really well--when I use a GriGri 2, I'm totally messed up, but I think that's just because of my hand remembering where the lip on the 1 is.

I personally +1 Phill T's remarks: holding the cam open w/ just my thumb and forefinger doesn't provide me with enough strength to hold it open in a fall, it kicks my thumb off.