Nope

A big deal like Ron Burgandy, or just a regular big deal.

Wieldin that axe, axin those question... you are a conversation slayer!

Alright fo reals tho, just pop up a bivy right by their crew and blare death metal.. if they politely ask you to pack up and head out or to even slighty turn down the music just whip out your axe and slay.

OR

Get a few dogs from the pound and unleash them at the base of their climbs ... they'll do the rest

Gah, 1st world problems

Mike Belu wrote:eating tuna out of a bag Did one have long hair and a beard; and feed the group all day out of one small tuna bag? Like a miraculous amount of tuna came out of one small bag? you want to be friends with that guy, he's kind of a big deal.

Did he have a shit-hot climbing partner named Mary?? I might know that guy. From what I heard, you have to hide your bong, though.

BCA wrote:Holy shit. This is the last time I want to post on MP. You guys have fun insulting one another without me.

Don't leave, BCA. This is a great iteration of this subject, which has come up a few times over the years. Don't abandon us! All anyone can really offer on this is commiseration and jokes, which you got a plethora of.

BCA wrote:Holy shit. This is the last time I want to post on MP. You guys have fun insulting one another without me.

Calm down, its not like the Romans made you post at the tip of a spear. I've seen a lot worse crucifixions around here.

There are a million crags and climbs in this world. Early bird gets the worm. I teach classes like this all the time. We wake up early so we can get the climbs we want. If they are paying permits then you have a right to be there.

And in all honesty everyone has to start somewhere. And Chances are they weren't taking the classic climbs, they took the fun easy climbs. Most people will let you take a TR burn on their gear or pull their rope and you can hang it back up for them. At least I always let people, just have to ask.

BCA wrote:Looks like I'm the only one on this post that has a problem with this. Also, I'm fairly certain that at most areas in the gorge a permit is not required for guiding.

Anytime money is exchanged legally for guiding you need permits holmes.

For a group of brave risk managers like climbers, I am consistently amazed by our inability to interact with each other socially...especially if there are kids around. I like that you are asking about what works well.

Here are the steps, and they work most of the time:

1: Smile and say hello.
2: Decide if
a: they are on climbs you really want to do and can't do without. If so, go to 3:
b: they are on routes you could care less about, but you are just generally annoyed by their presence. If so go to 5:

3: Ask who the group leader is and start a polite conversation.

4: Talk about the routes you want to do and try to figure out a solution that works for everybody. Try and keep in mind that a large group takes more time to manage and you probably won't get instant gratification.

5: Be an adult and deal with things not going your way. Kids are always in a strange environment where they don't know the rules. They need people to step up and help them learn. A few kind words to the kids or group leader with some behavior modeling on your part goes a long way.

I know that when I'm leading a large group that I work really hard to not be a bother. The reality is that a large group is nearly always going to be a bother, but often less of a bother than 10 groups of two/three. 20 people is 20 people and crags get crowded, at least it is usually easier to coordinate with 1 large group than a bunch of small ones.

The "way too friendly" attitude you got from the guides was their effort to put you at ease and make the space for you to talk about your needs/grievances. The extra friendly thing also helps with any us/them mentality that can develop and to model behavior for the clients.

JoeR wrote:For a group of brave risk managers like climbers, I am consistently amazed by our inability to interact with each other socially...especially if there are kids around. I like that you are asking about what works well. Here are the steps, and they work most of the time: 1: Smile and say hello. 2: Decide if a: they are on climbs you really want to do and can't do without. If so, go to 3: b: they are on routes you could care less about, but you are just generally annoyed by their presence. If so go to 5: 3: Ask who the group leader is and start a polite conversation. 4: Talk about the routes you want to do and try to figure out a solution that works for everybody. Try and keep in mind that a large group takes more time to manage and you probably won't get instant gratification. 5: Be an adult and deal with things not going your way. Kids are always in a strange environment where they don't know the rules. They need people to step up and help them learn. A few kind words to the kids or group leader with some behavior modeling on your part goes a long way. I know that when I'm leading a large group that I work really hard to not be a bother. The reality is that a large group is nearly always going to be a bother, but often less of a bother than 10 groups of two/three. 20 people is 20 people and crags get crowded, at least it is usually easier to coordinate with 1 large group than a bunch of small ones. The "way too friendly" attitude you got from the guides was their effort to put you at ease and make the space for you to talk about your needs/grievances. The extra friendly thing also helps with any us/them mentality that can develop and to model behavior for the clients.

I prefer anonymous internet slamming myself, post climb, with a beer or two in my belly. That is of course after letting the air out of the guide van tires. Of course if the beer or two in my belly comes from the guide I high five them and say have a nice day.

Mike Belu wrote:eating tuna out of a bag Did one have long hair and a beard; and feed the group all day out of one small tuna bag? Like a miraculous amount of tuna came out of one small bag? you want to be friends with that guy, he's kind of a big deal.

This guy is the gnarliest cat I've ever run into at the crag. He mostly just gives mad positive belays, but I once saw Him red point a 5.15 project like it was nothin'. Guy fully floated it. Let me have a pull off his water once, NOT what I was expecting. Guy parties, if you know what I mean.

Clifton Santiago wrote: This guy is the gnarliest cat I've ever run into at the crag. He mostly just gives mad positive belays, but I once saw Him red point a 5.15 project like it was nothin'. Guy fully floated it. Let me have a pull off his water once, NOT what I was expecting. Guy parties, if you know what I mean.

Yo, I fell on that route two days before he sent it. And he waited two more days, and then came and resuscitated me. And now I'm alive. It was cool, man.

nicelegs wrote:You should climb routes near them and be an awful person. Upon getting to the ground, you should loudly yell "Jesus Christ's cum covered tits that was a good route".

That's what I yell after every good route. Doesn't make you an awful person.

BCA......chill!! Whether you like it or not this is a 1st come 1st served situation. GET UP EARLIER. Of course, if a rope is hanging unused ask to get on the route and if you get no response, PULL THE ROPE DOWN, AND GO FOR IT.

If gangbangs bother you then you shouldn't be at the red in the first place.

APBT1976 wrote:It annoys all climbers for the most part. Not much to be done about it, at least nothing on the internet. And yes it annoys the shit out of me. Fact is though they have just as much right to be there as me. What really gets my goat is guides letting beginner ice climbers top rope and hack away at early season ice or routes that are delicate in general.

Yeah that about sums it up. It sucks big time especially when there are 2-3 guides for 25-30 people, but just gotta get up earlier.

Most big guiding groups don't give a rat's *ss about etiquette, or early season ice or sharing. It's about maximizing profits. More people usually = more money. You just have to accept that and move on since that isn't going to change in today's mainstream climbing culture.

BCA wrote:I want to hear from the community on this one. I climb at the red river gorge with relative frequency (being that I live in Michigan), and though I realize it is a crowded area, I'm wondering of anyone would chime in on their experience regarding outdoor or church groups taking over a crag.

Uhhh... if you are the kind of person who goes to the kind of crag that gets frequented by church/college groups, then you deserve what you get.

At this point, complaining about the crowds at the Red is like complaining about cold in Alaska, beer in Utah, or traffic in Atlanta.

there's beer in utah?

Locker wrote:Quit being a selfish prick, and embrace the lord as your savior...

Best post.

Beer in Utah is not that bad... you just have to think about it like redpointing vs onsighting...the former just takes a bit more work to get you where you want to be... a little dedication is all that is needed...

A couple points, in no specific order:

1) Big guided groups annoy the shit out of almost everyone.

2) Guides know big groups annoy people, but they do it anyway because they don't give a shit about you or the crag environment.

3) Who gets up early for sport climbing? Really?