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Edelrid Mega Jul

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
bearbreeder wrote: mammuts (ironic) and maxims 10mm+ are bad ropes to use with the smart as they tend to be stiffer, especially when they get fuzzy and older the rocklock is also a poor choice for the alpine smart ... the petzl william and DMM boa work pretty smoothly for rapping ... many climbers i know had issues with the rocklock or other biners until i got them to switch out to the boa/william that said i rapped down a maxim glider very quickly over the weekend off a multi ... alot of it has to do with how you hold open the rap device .... there is a certain method ... the alpine smart is very biner and rope dependent for smooth operation ... but once you find a combo that works, its quite smooth ... the gri gri is still the smoothest device on lead belaying with 10mm gyms ropes for me, but the alpine smart aint that far behind, the ATC guide which ive used for years is less smooth IMO i think one of the issues about the use of the alpine smart is that many people i know come from an ATC background to it (lets face it if yr a sport weenie whose used a gri gri for a decade, you arent switching) .... i see people not stacking out the ropes properly, not using a hand to shake out the rope occasionally, and other such habits that you can get away with an ATC ... with a gri gri/smart you need to do these things to insure the rope feeds smoothly ... not just belay from a thrown down mess of ropes ... the gri gri also has issues wth thick stiff ropes IMO ... all this is worth it for the smooth as butter autoblock of the smart IMO ... especially if you are taking up 2 cute girls ;)
I used the Mega Jul and Alpine Smart for rope ascending like a GriGri. The Mega Jul ,Smart, ATC-G rig like an autoblock/Top Belay with a redirect off a pulley hung from an Ascender. Of the three only the Smart would function smoothly like a GriGri. Same reason why it is easy to pull rope through belaying from an anchor.
DannyUncanny · · Vancouver · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 100

I messed around with one at the store the other day. The 2mm width of the cast steel feature which someone's life will depend on kind of freaks me out. My gut feeling is to trust forging or machining more than casting.

Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185

@DannyUncanny
Thanks for bringing up this concern.
The loop for belaying the second might look thin but it fulfills the prEN norm of 8kn with ease. In internal tests it even exceeded the required strength by far. There is no reason to not trust it.

Joey Wolfe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,020
Robert Fogle · · Juneau, AK · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 35

My Review Climbsoutheast

jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55

The MEC has been selling it for several weeks. Only one buyer review on their site so far and it's pretty discouraging. Among the issues mentioned, the one that I'm most concerned about is that of wear being inflicted by the steel device on the softer belay biner. The reviewer didn't specify which biner he used. It seems unlikely that this was caused by using the device wrong (wrong handling or wrong kind of biner) because, apparently, he was able to return both the Jul and the messed-up biner (although MEC is usually pretty lenient with their return policy and they may not have checked if he used it correctly or they may have accepted the return despite incorrect use). Could it be a case again of some belay biners having the problem and others not? I certainly wouldn't want to have to try and find (let alone use) a steel belay biner to avoid this problem. Anyone else finding similar problems? The Smart has been around longer and I haven't seen this issue mentioned for it. I'm still trying to find time to take my own rope to the nearest MEC and try the Jul myself but I'm concerned that this issue of biner damage would show up only in the field and not in the store

George Bracksieck · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2008 · Points: 3,393

Although the body of the Smart is aluminum, which would help dissipate heat, the rope-bearing surfaces appear to be stainless steel.

Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
jktinst wrote:The MEC has been selling it for several weeks. Only one buyer review on their site so far and it's pretty discouraging. Among the issues mentioned, the one that I'm most concerned about is that of wear being inflicted by the steel device on the softer belay biner. The reviewer didn't specify which biner he used. It seems unlikely that this was caused by using the device wrong (wrong handling or wrong kind of biner) because, apparently, he was able to return both the Jul and the messed-up biner (although MEC is usually pretty lenient with their return policy and they may not have checked if he used it correctly or they may have accepted the return despite incorrect use). Could it be a case again of some belay biners having the problem and others not? I certainly wouldn't want to have to try and find (let alone use) a steel belay biner to avoid this problem. Anyone else finding similar problems? The Smart has been around longer and I haven't seen this issue mentioned for it. I'm still trying to find time to take my own rope to the nearest MEC and try the Jul myself but I'm concerned that this issue of biner damage would show up only in the field and not in the store
The Mega Jul does cause some wear to the outer edge of the carabiner. It is cosmetic.
Ray Pinpillage · · West Egg · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 180
John Wilder wrote:The smart wouldnt do this, as its made of aluminum.
The Smart has it's own issues with carabiners such as focusing all the wear on a specific spot so you get a nice big groove.
Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185

The Mega Jul does scratch up your iodized biners. Your shiny carabiner will get scratches. Currently it is recommended to use the "HMS Strike FG" with it. It is a silver carabiner, therefore you don´t really see the scratches. Besides that, the shape of the HMS Strike fits perfectly into the Mega Jul. I haven´t heard of any case in which the biner had to be replaced because of the scratches. It is a cosmetic issue. You don´t have to dedicate the biner to the MegaJul. The biner is completely fine, it is just an optical deficit.

Concerning the MEC Review:
The people who reviewed the Mega Jul used it for only one day. It takes some training to fluently use the device. To me their review reads like they tried the MegaJul without consulting the manual. The manual tells you that your biner will get scratches from the Mega Jul.

Here is a picture of a HMS Strike FG after five days of climbing with a Mega Jul on it.

HMS strike / Mega Jul / 5 days use

Edelrid is aware of the "scratching-issue" and will provide a solution to this in its 2014 product line.

jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55

If the 2014 fix is developed on the side of the Jul, I’d say that it’s almost certain that I’d buy one but if the fix requires buying a special Edelrid biner while the Jul continues scratching other biners, I’d probably be a lot less enthusiastic.

Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185

The fix won´t be on the side of the device.
As I said, the scratches are the drawback of the device. Everybody has to decide for themselves if he can live with a scratched biner or not :-)

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

if yr gear aint scratched you arent climbing enuff ;)

Brad M · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0

I'm using a mega jul and yeah, the device wears off the anodizing in a few areas, but by the time it makes any sort of gouge you should probably retire it due to rope grooves anyway. I'd avoid using something narrow and soft like the petzl attache 3D, but for the same reason it makes a poor belay biner for any device.

jktinst · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 55
bearbreeder wrote:if yr gear aint scratched you arent climbing enuff ;)
No argument there. I am definitely not climbing nearly enuff.

My first reaction to the scratching issue was: I already have to watch out for bolt hanger scratches when I use the biners for things other than sport QDs or clipping wires. I am not keen on having to also watch for Jul scratches on biners that I may want to use for Munter hitches. I am getting increasingly tired of all this stuff that becomes use-specific, multiplying the amount of gear I need to buy to cover all the different uses. I also don't see myself stopping using the Munter for belaying the second anytime soon. I find it too useful for giving a tight rope or paying rope back out when needed (things at which the lock-assist devices like ATC Guide, Reverso and so on are either hopeless or lousy).

Having said that, I still very much like the idea of a small and light lock-assist device for belaying the leader. I suppose that having one Jul-dedicated biner per rope team would not be all that bad. Of course, with that system of a Jul to belay the leader and the Munter for the second, I really should find some sort of Munter-compatible back-up to give the second a level of protection against accidental loss of control of the rope at least equivalent to that of the Jul.

It seems that a prusik anchored to the leg loop of the belayer and positioned on the rope just above his brake hand should do the trick nicely for this. If you let go and the second falls (or tugs the rope, or you slump down, etc.), the prusik locks the brake strand. The knot will move down with the brake strand of the rope when it is being taken in and can be easily pushed back up the rope when sliding the brake hand back up. When paying out slack or lowering, the brake hand can go above the prusik to keep it sliding. You have to pay attention to the distance between the Munter biner and your leg loop and the length of the prusik to make sure that it will be long enough to allow a good taking in movement but short enough that it will lock the rope before butting against (or jamming itself into) the Munter.

This all seems fairly doable but the proof will be in the pudding and, since the weather has finally decided to turn nice around here, it'll soon be pudding time and I will be able to go back to not climbing nearly enuff outside!
Brad M · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0

First you rail against extra gear then proceed to build the most complex belay system ever. Do you seriously expect that cluster f of knots to work as smooth as a guide style belay device?

sherb · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60
Brad M wrote:First you rail against extra gear then proceed to build the most complex belay system ever. Do you seriously expect that cluster f of knots to work as smooth as a guide style belay device?
LOL. no need for belay devices at all, munters and waist belays is where it's at
Redpoint · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 10

Redpoint has the Mega Juls back in stock. Order from the webstore and enjoy free shipping no matter how inexpensive the order is. Or stop in the shop to see before you buy.

Eric

sherb · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60

ok thanks!

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
jktinst wrote: It seems that a prusik anchored to the leg loop of the belayer and positioned on the rope just above his brake hand should do the trick nicely for this. If you let go and the second falls (or tugs the rope, or you slump down, etc.), the prusik locks the brake strand. The knot will move down with the brake strand of the rope when it is being taken in and can be easily pushed back up the rope when sliding the brake hand back up. When paying out slack or lowering, the brake hand can go above the prusik to keep it sliding. You have to pay attention to the distance between the Munter biner and your leg loop and the length of the prusik to make sure that it will be long enough to allow a good taking in movement but short enough that it will lock the rope before butting against (or jamming itself into) the Munter. This all seems fairly doable but the proof will be in the pudding and, since the weather has finally decided to turn nice around here, it'll soon be pudding time and I will be able to go back to not climbing nearly enuff outside!
good luck feeding slack out fast this way ..theres a reason why we dont belay with prussik backups ...

if i saw anyone belaying like that i wouldnt climb with em ...
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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