Thoughts on dragon cams?

I love me some BD but since their patent ran out on the twin axle design and they moved their stuff to china, not to mention this winter ill be replacing all of my gear... the dragon cams caught my eye! curious what peoples opinions are comparatively. I've had HB quad cams, trango flex cams and old u stems, BD c3's and used c4's.

they work more or less the same as the BDs IMO ... i own both

they save the weight of an extra draw for short extensions

for cracks they also dont take away footholds that clipping a draw would ... and they dont load the extending carabiner of the draw over the crack ...

for hard redpoints ill often rack em up already extended ...

in short they work just fine .. its the climber that makes the difference anyways

ive whipped on all of mine

Whattttttt a post from bearbreeder without a winky face at the end?!?

For aid dragons are inferior since you can't clip them short.

hmm a notion that didnt cross my mind in the spectrum of comparison.... anyone got any clever solutions to that?

We could get an admin to change his post and add a winky face....

Or were you talking about the cams? :P

You could having some sort of "laso" made out of accessory cord that you could slip/ cinch down over the stem to "clip short" then just clip them normally as pro. But that just seems a little silly.

I've been climbing on the sizes 4,6 dragon cam (equivalent to the 2,4 in BD C4 sizes) for a while now, and like them. They absolutely bear a strong resemblance to the C4, enough so that it's hard to imagine liking one and really disliking the other.

The extendable sling is great in a lot of situations (having to carry fewer draws with you on long trad pitches is always a welcome improvement, for example), but the sling is sewn and covered with plastic, so that it can't slide through the holes that mount it, which can be a serious pain. Something that DMM probably can and should address.

Regarding clipping them high, you can extend the sling, tie it off with a knot that chokes up on the stem, and clip in above the knot. Because the stem is shorter on the dragon than a C4, this makes it a pretty even trade relative to the C4. Granted, it is a time sink to have to tie the knots compared to just clipping an existing thump loop, and it does nothing to compensate for the lack of a thump loop when actually placing the cam, but it certainly can be done.

Anyway, they're well made, and I have liked using them, but it's not going to be a real paradigm shift for you if you're already placing C4s. A while back I wrote up a review of them, below, if anyone has the patience for a bit of a longer write-up.
blistergearreview.com/gear-…

Great cams. If you think you could consider aid climbing just get the C4's. I like my dragons but i see myself reaching for the C4s a little more.

I have an almost full set and like them for the most part. I originally chose them over C4's for the slightly reduced cam angle. The sling is nice to save a few draws. But if I would change one thing, it would be the slings. Ive never been sold on real skinny mini dyneema. I think the nylon on C4's will last much longer. And I think getting that super skinny shit re-slung is going to be a pain. I havent found anyone that will resling with the same thickness as what comes on them originally, except sending them back to DMM (someone may be out there to do it, I just havent found them). You could use cord, though.

I like the Dragons a lot, I mostly climb multi-pitch routes and love the fact I have to carry less quickdraws.

The camming action feels almost identical to the C4's, very smooth and slick.

DMM are a quality company who deserve the support of the climbing community in my opinion, Black Diamond's questionable owners and chinese manufacturing means they won't be getting any more business from me. DMM on the other hand are based in a small mountain town in the middle of Snowdonia National Park.

Rob Lilley wrote:DMM are a quality company who deserve the support of the climbing community in my opinion, Black Diamond's questionable owners and chinese manufacturing means they won't be getting any more business from me. DMM on the other hand are based in a small mountain town in the middle of Snowdonia National Park.

I rack both and here are my observations. Outside of the thumb loop, I see no other advantage to the BD Camalot. Every person I've climbed with that has never used a dragon cam ultimately arrives at the belay saying, these things are sweet. Every single one of them has been impressed by the functionality of the extendable sling. I too will rack them extended at times when on a challenging pitch and have not found the long length to cause issues when climing even when they're hanging low.

On durablility, I hear what folks are saying about the slings (that the thin dyneema will wear and need to be replaced faster). However, I can also say confidently that while the slings will need to be replaced earlier, the cams themselves (the actual cam) are far more durable. I've noticed over the years that even my 2nd generation Camalots have worn better than my C4s. I have 2nd Generation Camalots that still look really good and are 12 years old that look better than my 2-3 year old C4s. The metal on the new C4s is lighter, less tough and wears down very quickly (I've seen many that no longer have true ridges). I'm certain that this has something to do with the lighter metal and probably the desirable properties of the metal. That said - the Dragon cams metal is far tougher and is wearing more like the 2nd generation Camalots.

I agree with Rob. Support your local Welshman!! Or send $$$ to me and I'll do it for you.

Love the DMM quality and workmanship, plus the very elegant slinging options, they're also a bit lighter than the Camalots.

I have both Dragon's ( I have 1-4) and C4s (I have .3,.4,3,6). I like them as the sling means I don't have to carry extra draws all the time, and it means if the 'biner sits on an edge, you can just extend it and it will be fine. One issue I have had, was that the it can sometimes be hard to unclip the correct stand. A solution to that is to use a 1 inch O-ring doubled up around the sling and 'biner. I also much prefer the action on the #2 Camalot to the #4 dragon, but below that size they feel great. For cragging and multipitch,they're awesome and IMO just as good as Camalots, but for aid the Camalots are better due to the high clip point.

Just my 0.02.

Another issue... Price, if you're on a budget, just get Camalots, or find a deal on Dragons.

siwel wrote: One issue I have had, was that the it can sometimes be hard to unclip the correct stand. A solution to that is to use a 1 inch O-ring doubled up around the sling and 'biner.

I tried out the dragon cams and decided they weren't for me. The construction looks and feels great but the the thumbloop is actually kind of important. I have bigger hands and I can actually palm the end of the Camalot thumbloops and pull the trigger at the same time. Especially for removing cams when following this is helpful.

Getting the sling arranged properly seems to be more trouble than it's worth for both the follower and the leader. I'd rather carry the (much longer) double length sling over my shoulder and just clip it straight onto my cam.

Definitely try before you buy.

Nomad, I have seen that video. and I know the risk, but thanks for pointing it out. All you have to do to avoid the event shown in the video is just look at your rack before you use it, which is in theory something we should all be doing anyway.

The Dragons are gorgeous, lots of care put into the construction. If you hold the Dragons next to the C4's they are almost identical in size. For the money, though, probably not worth it. The Dragons are pricier than the C4's for almost the same product. If you want to support a company that manufactures in England then go for it, but the performance is almost the same IMHO. I like the thumb loop on the C4 but I like the extendable sling on the Dragon. The action on the C4 is a but stiffer but they are both smooth.

"If you want to support a company that manufactures in England then go for it..."

Aaaargh !! You just offended a whole bunch of Welsh people.

Haha yeah the English company uses a press that only other company rolls Royce uses and BD outsourced to china... Not an effective comment

Ray Pinpillage... hahaha NICE!

K-Tanz wrote: If you want to support a company that manufactures in England then go for it...