Mocassym sizing

I'm looking to get a pair of mocs, sized big for crack climbing and long moderates. This is a gap in my current shoe collection, and after some research + great experiences with 5.10 I decided on the Mocs.

I want to get an idea of how people size the mocs for this purpose. Im looking for a fit where my toes are totally flat and totally comfy for climbing cracks and long moderates (but obviously not baggy). I hear that they stretch a lot and you have to size down a lot to compensate, but I also know people use them for other applications, not sure how much this applies for a comfort fit.

I wear a 10 in Anasazis for an intermediate-performance fit and a 10 in Arrowheads for a tight performance fit. My street shoe size is 11 and occasionally 10.5

I size them down 1.5 sizes. They still stretch enough for crack climbing and moderates.

Me: 10 street shoe, 9 Ansazi, 8.5 moccs.

I go down a half a size for crack climbing and they are perfect.

I go with one size down from my street shoe and that has always been good.

I go down 2 to 2.5 sizes for a good performance bouldering/sport climbing fit. By the end of their life they are acceptable for crack climbing, though my toes arent completely flat. If I wanted a dedicated crack shoe, I think I'd probably down size 1 to 1.5 sizes.

Thanks yall!

The average so far is 1 size down.

Anyone else care to add their personal experience to my data pool?

This is a tough one as people can have such varied experience with an unlined shoe like the moc. I have an old pair for cracks that I loved. For what it's worth, I sized mine down one full size, but wound up wishing I had gone one half size larger.

The thing to keep in mind is that it is the leather on the top that does most of the stretching, not the rubber sole. So it's one thing for the toe box to be tight, but if the shoe is too "short" for you in a significant way, it probably won't change as much as you'd like (assuming you're aiming for a crack-friendly, flat-toed fit). If you want them loose for longer, easier climbing, I'd recommend trying on a full size down, but don't hesitate to move up from there if your toes are more than slightly curled.

Last thought on this: shoe stretch is also a function of how tight you fit them in the first place, rather than a fixed value. Shoes don't always stretch 1/2 size, for example. They'll stretch more if you fit them super tight, and less if you fit them comfortably from the get-go. Aim for slight toe curl and you should be golden after a few pitches.

i wear a 10.5 in vans and most street shoes, and went to a 42.5(9.5) in mocc's. they fit perfect after about 10 pitches. but before that youll be thankful you have pull-ons because they were close to unbearable. now theyre like "the sock" that everyone talks about. the best advice that i got when sizing them was toes curled, but tips of toes still flat, if that makes sense.

1 1/2 sizes down from street shoe size. I wear a 11.5US and my mocs area 10.

The break in period for Mocs is a right-of-passage. They go from comically tight to flat toes fit.

Half size down from street shoe size for cracks
Full size down for gym/sport

I wear 11 street shoes. I bought 2 pairs of mocs, in size 10 and 10.5 - this worked out great for a few years and I thought it was a good system.

However I'm now back to using other shoes and rarely use the mocs. I find that Katanas are better in the gym and TC pros and Mythos work better in Yosemite, which is where I do most of my outdoor climbing. YMMV but that is my experience.