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Oak Creek Waterfall bolting problem

Original Post
karabin museum · · phoenix. AZ · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 1,670

Just out of the parking area for the Oak Creek Waterfall, some climber decided to go crazy with glue-in bolts on the main approach trail which leads to the creek. Like 40+ bolts. This area shows a great example of somebody who has no authority on bolting. What a disgrace and on the main trail which thousands of visitors a year walk down to get to the creek. One route looks like an aid training traverse, and then there are bolts glued everywhere on the trail on the tops of many of the plateaus. Some are missing hangers and some of the glue-ins looked smashed down by somebody else retaliating the bolting. There is even one glue-in bolt on a separate 100 lb rock which two people can freely carry around. This creek area is the locals 5-star swimming hole, which is now being climber trashed.

Does anybody know who is creating this mess?

Hampton Uzzelle · · Tucson, Arizona · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 5

Marty, I don't know if this was ever resolved but others are aware of the problem. See the link below. mountainproject.com/v/oak-c…

karabin museum · · phoenix. AZ · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 1,670

Thanks for the link but at the same time there was no effort made by other climbers to clean up the problem? The posts are from 2010. So somebody goes out and makes a joke about bolting and it is left for everybody else to see? Any anti climbing organization can use this area as an example of why bolting should be stopped.

This is a total problem!

If this was a practice area for rescue training, I would personally like to have a few words with their captain on incorrect bolting that he is promoting within a visible tourist area located just down stream from Slide Rock. Besides placing dangerous bolts for others to hang off of as practice. Whoever did this has no respect for nature. There are bolts F'n everywhere, and many for no reason and on the main trail! The bolts were placed with no thought, directionals are incorrect, many bolts are too close to the rock tops which are expansion on sandstone, all on short 15' creek bed walls. There are however a few large Petzl glue-in bolts which are not commonly seen and were purchased possibly directly through the Manufacturer. Any climber can see how ugly this situation looks for all climbers.

This is not a slack line set up or film shoot or anything like that. Just somebody that decided that they were going to create their vision of climbing. Start with power drill, get big ego, create a mess for all, and then read the "how to climb" and "climbing ethics" books.

The climbers in Phoenix would have proudly chopped this problem away once it got started. It would be deemed "unacceptable" by all Phoenix climbing organizations.
What are the Northern AZ climbers doing about the problem……………..nothing……………really? Just letting the problem get worse?

Oak Creek Waterfall area
Oak Creek Waterfall area
Sponsored!
"unbolted" rock face, Oak Creek

john crawley · · Westminster, CO · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 385

The attrocity is there with the permission of the land managers. It's used for search and rescue training. Believe me I have wanted to remove them often.

john crawley · · Westminster, CO · Joined Feb 2011 · Points: 385

The attrocity is there with the permission of the land managers. It's used for search and rescue training. Believe me I have wanted to remove them often.

Joel Unema · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 1,165

That area is used by a few rope access training groups and Sedona Fire rescue for training. I dislike it as well, but chopping it would not be a good move for relations with other groups. Also, myself and the climbers I know try to keep the area clean by picking up trash around the swimming hole. Climbers from Flag do not leave trash on the approach or near the swimming hole, it is other tourists and non-climbing swimmers.

Zack S. · · Prescott, AZ · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 35

As mentioned in the previous thread, these are land-manager approved bolts placed by Ropes That Rescue. They're obviously unnecessary and a mess. Rescue could be practiced and kids could go top roping at literally dozens of other places in the Sedona/Flagstaff/Prescott areas.
This does indeed show what plenty of money and a cozy relationship with land managers will get you. It reminds me of Pink Jeep Tours being tacitly allowed to leave tire tracks all over the slickrock, or getting an unnecessary berm installed at the entrance to Dry Creek Road so they don't look stupid when people pass pink jeeps in passenger cars. Or a certain bike tour company in the area constructing an illegal bike trail out their back door with no consequences due to a 'personal' relationship with a land manager...gotta love that Red Rock Ranger District.
As much of an eyesore as it is, please leave the bolts alone. Chopping these 'legal' bolts will only create problems for the N. AZ. climbing community.

AMT · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 0

I'd hate to see this area get caught up in a chopping controversy. My work is in public land management and it seems like there might be solutions esp. given the amount of visitors in the area. If it'd be helpful to have someone talk with people from Coconino SAR, Sedona Fire, and the Red Rock Ranger district, about potential solutions (hard to believe we couldn't come up with a less visible alternative location for rescue training), I'd be happy to give it a shot. Agreed with Joel and John about the need to keep relations good esp. in an area as special as the waterfall. -Anne Mariah-

Robbie Brown · · the road · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 465

As Chris Kalous once said regarding bolts; "If you clip them, you own them"

guy bon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 2,545

I haven't been to the waterfall area yet but I noticed a similar atrocity near grasshopper point, and even at the anvil boulders. Grasshopper point is littered with funky anchors in weird spots and hanger-less bolts on boulders. The same can be said about the anvil boulders. I can see adding a bolt to the top of some of the taller faces of the boulders but to have 5 or 6 is stupid....not to mention most are missing hangers or are improperly placed glue-ins.

Going from CT to Sedona was like a vegan first witnessing the results of the atkins diet.

karabin museum · · phoenix. AZ · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 1,670

This is the worst bolting I have ever seen, and it was done by a company that may rescue somebody some day. Nice! My hat is off to all rescue guys out there since there are a lot of uneducated climbers climbing the rocks. But out of all of the rock in Oak Creek canyon, the mouth of a popular trailhead was chosen to deface and in a low budget way. To me this looks like a training ground opportunity that was taken too far.

guy bon · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 2,545
lou · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 60

Dont have a problem with Search n Rescue throwing some bolts around to practice... might not be pretty.. but I think most people understand the need... they tend to use more anchors for their setups than climbers would.. all sorts of backups..directionals... etc.. we may all need them oneday when we get busted up.... the best can get broken. I would like to see whoever put the rebar ladder at the pond given a talk to!! Now ever pedestrian goes up to the crags... spray paint yay.... hello

cheers
lou

j mo · · n az · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 1,180

Anne MT, hats off for talking solution. Let's all be careful: we've just lost our parking privileges at the pit, lord knows what could happen to our beloved waterfall if we piss the wrong people off.

Red · · Tacoma, Toyota · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 1,625
lou wrote: I would like to see whoever put the rebar ladder at the pond given a talk to!! Now ever pedestrian goes up to the crags... spray paint yay.... hello
Grab your popcorn everybody.
Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
lou wrote: I would like to see whoever put the rebar ladder at the pond given a talk to!! Now ever pedestrian goes up to the crags... spray paint yay.... hello
Don't forget the Dots, Milk Duds, and Coke . . . get ready for the movie; something to do with Pots, Kettles, and a Blacksmith as I once heard it told . . .

10 . . . 9 . . . 8 . . . ?

There might also be a short cartoonish lampooning before the film about some interesting "historical" activity at Pinnacle Peak and in the McDowells . . .

7 . . . 6 . . .

Fred
Nicholas Oxentenko · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 10

Comparing the bolt ladder to the waterfall bolting disgrace in Sedona is invalid, personally I have seen many Gipsy-esk hoodlums come up the steep west side of the pond and only find the ladder upon watching climbers come up that way, or maybe you are referencing all the graffiti at the pond that has shown up after the installation of the ladder? Graffiti that I have still yet to see/find in my years of climbing at the pond. Given a free afternoon I wouldn't hesitate to chop some bolts if I could see it keeping some novice climber from getting injured.

Fred AmRhein · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2007 · Points: 512
Nicholas Oxentenko wrote: Comparing the bolt ladder to the waterfall bolting disgrace in Sedona is invalid
Quite true; the glued-in rebar ladder at The Pond area is anything but a "bolt" ladder, there are literally no bolts and it's quite a bit more than that. Most comments over the years surrounded who was responsible for it not so much in advocating to actually chop it; thus the Pot, Kettle, and Blacksmith riddle.

Regardless, there it is and my guess is that it's not going anywhere soon.

Fred
Nicholas Oxentenko · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2009 · Points: 10

Miss typed bolt ladder when I meant rebar ladder FYI

BGBingham · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2007 · Points: 60
Nicholas Oxentenko wrote:Comparing the bolt ladder to the waterfall bolting disgrace in Sedona is invalid..
Calling the comparison invalid, doesn't make it invalid. There were plenty of climbers who thought the rebar ladder was unnecessary and self serving at the time it was put up. This is similar to how climbers feel about the subject of this thread and it is an issue that pops up regularly - not just in climbing.

In boating it came about when someone (can't remember who, but he was eventually caught) blew up a rapid on the Salt River so as to make guiding trips easier and portages less frequent.

Coming to consensus is difficult at best but if something shows up suddenly and (relatively) anonymously it likely means there should have been more discussion.
Jeff Kent · · Sedona, Az · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 0
JJ Schlick wrote: So the issue is more complex than we would like to imagine, and the solution might need to be more involved than mere sabotage.
I think the issue is less complex. If it's not affecting access, we should leave it alone. Especially if it's there with express permission.

It is an eyesore though!
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Arizona & New Mexico
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