Tying off

A thought just popped into my head. Most people that I've found use an ATC/tube-style belay/rappel device of some kind over an 8 (rescue or figure) or a Grigri. I know you can tie off the 8's, but how? And can you tie off if you were to rappel with an ATC or a Grigri? Would it work the same way as with an 8? And also, is tying of with a figure 8 significantly harder than with a rescue 8? Thanks!

Edit: Tying off for rappelling.

Do you mean for belaying or for rappelling?

Matt Roberts wrote:Do you mean for belaying or for rappelling?

Sorry! Good question, I meant for rappelling.

You can mule it off like a muenter mule, just make sure the rope goes back around the 'biner first. Also I like to run a daisy loop or 2 around the spine before the mule. HTH.

First, don't learn to climb on the interwebs.

That being said, you have lots of options.

1. Back up your rappel. "Set" your backup and you're done.
2. Do a simple leg wrap if you are only going to stop for a short time.
3. Several other methods to 'tie-off' your belay device, but here's what I like, it's simple, fast, and easy to un-do. Push a bight of the brake strand through the biner connecting your device to your belay loop. Push another bight through the first bight, then pull enough of the second bight through to tie a big ol' overhand knot with the second bight around the loaded line above your device. Works with any device, is bomber, and when you are ready to continue, untie the overhand, grab the brake strand, and pull (pop) both of the bights through each other.

Robert Cort wrote:First, don't learn to climb on the interwebs. That being said, you have lots of options. 1. Back up your rappel. "Set" your backup and you're done. 2. Do a simple leg wrap if you are only going to stop for a short time. 3. Several other methods to 'tie-off' your belay device, but here's what I like, it's simple, fast, and easy to un-do. Push a bight of the brake strand through the biner connecting your device to your belay loop. Push another bight through the first bight, then pull enough of the second bight through to tie a big ol' overhand knot with the second bight around the loaded line above your device. Works with any device, is bomber, and when you are ready to continue, untie the overhand, grab the brake strand, and pull (pop) both of the bights through each other.

Understood. And so back it up with a Prussik? (by the way, what IS the correct spelling of that? I've seen it Prusic, Prusik, Prussic, and Prussik) And I got it, makes sense. Thanks again.

Spelled Prusik

You can tie off any device with a mule hitch followed by a back up overhand.

In canyoneering we use a special tie off for figure 8's but I wouldn't recommend it unless using is as a contingency anchor.

Matt R wrote: Understood. And so back it up with a Prussik? (by the way, what IS the correct spelling of that? I've seen it Prusic, Prusik, Prussic, and Prussik) And I got it, makes sense. Thanks again.

Once again, you have options (and I've seen prusik spelled more ways than I can count).

1. You can use an autoblock below the device (essentially a prusik loop with one end girthed to the leg loop of your harness, wrapped three times around the brake strand, then the other end clipped back to your leg loop. Acts like a surrogate for your brake hand. Warning if it's too long, and runs up into your device, it will self tend, and won't work.
2. A prusik above your device. Two warnings here, it could be very difficult to release after it's loaded (use a purcell prusik to minimize that risk), and if it's locked up out of your reach, you will have to figure out a way to reach it.
3. Most recently I've been using a VT prusik above my device (from Blue Water ropes). It's made of technora (so it won't melt). People will chide me for using a $15 item when a $0.75 piece of cord will work, but with the VT, I can descend a loaded rope (yes, it can serve as a descent control device on either a loaded or un-loaded rope)

Whoops, too much teaching on the interwebs, you can find plenty of discussion about the above (except maybe the VT prusik) with a simple search. Search the canyoneering sites for info on the VT prusik.

The Rescue 8 is called that for a couple reasons, one of which being the rabbit ears which lets you tie off yourself much like a cleat for mooring a boat.
I don't feel all that comfortable with doing a regular 8 (or "super 8") in the same fashion.

I generally just use a Guide and third hand hitch with some cord.

Robert Cort wrote: Once again, you have options (and I've seen prusik spelled more ways than I can count). 1. You can use an autoblock below the device (essentially a prusik loop with one end girthed to the leg loop of your harness, wrapped three times around the brake strand, then the other end clipped back to your leg loop. Acts like a surrogate for your brake hand. Warning if it's too long, and runs up into your device, it will self tend, and won't work. 2. A prusik above your device. Two warnings here, it could be very difficult to release after it's loaded (use a purcell prusik to minimize that risk), and if it's locked up out of your reach, you will have to figure out a way to reach it. 3. Most recently I've been using a VT prusik above my device (from Blue Water ropes). It's made of technora (so it won't melt). People will chide me for using a $15 item when a $0.75 piece of cord will work, but with the VT, I can descend a loaded rope (yes, it can serve as a descent control device on either a loaded or un-loaded rope) Whoops, too much teaching on the interwebs, you can find plenty of discussion about the above (except maybe the VT prusik) with a simple search. Search the canyoneering sites for info on the VT prusik.

I've been on the fence about buying Blue Water accessory cord for a Prusik, but I think this posts justifies the purchase. What size mm do you use? I was thinking 6 or 7. And that's solid as always.

well dont listen to me since im an intraweb MPer ...

but ... if you do ...

3 wraps around the leg and then an overhand clipped to the belay loop ...

you dont need no stinking 8s ....

for the gri gri ...

basic skills, not fancy gear ...

bearbreeder wrote:well dont listen to me since im an intraweb MPer ... but ... if you do ... 3 wraps around the leg and then an overhand clipped to the belay loop ... you dont need no stinking 8s .... for the gri gri ... basic skills, not fancy gear ...

Thanks for the image. And I'd consider the Grigri pretty fancy... It's kinda expensive for me.

Can you tie off with an ATC?

Matt R wrote: I've been on the fence about buying Blue Water accessory cord for a Prusik, but I think this posts justifies the purchase. What size mm do you use? I was thinking 6 or 7. And that's solid as always.

Blue water accessory cord and the VT prusik are two very different things. The VT prusik is technora (won't melt). All other accessory cord is subject to melting at high temps.

You can tie off the ATC just like the images show for the gri-gri (and what I previously described).

Matt R wrote:Can you tie off with an ATC?

for rappel ...

you can use a mule hitch or some variation there off ...

the better way as i stated is to do 3 leg wraps and tie an overhand clipped to your belay loop for backup if you dont need to stop for a long long long time ... do it once and youll never forget how to do it ... especially when yr cold, tired, hungry, in the dark and trying to escape from the vicious crag bears ...

KISS

;)

Robert Cort wrote: Blue water accessory cord and the VT prusik are two very different things. The VT prusik is technora (won't melt). All other accessory cord is subject to melting at high temps. You can tie off the ATC just like the images show for the gri-gri (and what I previously described).

bearbreeder wrote: for rappel ... you can use a mule hitch or some variation there off ... the better way as i stated is to do 3 leg wraps and tie an overhand clipped to your belay loop for backup if you dont need to stop for a long long long time ... do it once and youll never forget how to do it ... especially when yr cold, tired, hungry, in the dark and trying to escape from the vicious crag bears ... KISS ;)

Thanks to you both. The replies are uber fast. This place is so useful. I'll check out both methods.