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Lessons Learned

wivanoff · · Northeast, USA · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 674

Bring a working headlamp

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

Don't start celebrating until the rope you rapped down on is on the ground.

Don't climb multipitch with someone who doesn't know self rescue... or at least how to escape a belay.

Brian M · · Long Beach, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155
wivanoff wrote:Bring a working headlamp
Amen !
And I love reading these , anybody got some more ?
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Be kind and let people behind you pass... i spent an extra 3 hours on a route due to having to sit there on belay ledges waiting for the people in front of me to finish... turned what i expected to be an 8 hour day into 11 hours.

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Mike Anderson wrote:A very common mistake is trying to work through the grades on trad climbs. Instead, work on being a good climber, not a good trad climber, then once you have achieved that, it is very easy to apply "good climbing" skills to the sub-discipline of trad climbing.
If that were really a good idea then the majority of folks here who actually do trad wouldn't climb 2-3 grades below their sport level.

Sure a few top sport performers can cross-over reasonably well in a short time, but in general there's almost nothing more terrifying to watch than 5.12 gym/sport crossovers tackling old school trad 5.10s.

All the way around there is simply way, way more involved with trad than movement and the idea the average Jim or Jill is going to weather that transition with aplomb and do it safely without coming up through the grades is fraught with problems.

Bill Kirby wrote: Don't start celebrating until the rope you rapped down on is on the ground.
I don't know. Seen a few fuck ups over the years which convinced me not to start celebrating until you're back at your car...

NickinCO wrote:Being new to trad myself I love it when a guide book tells you the gear you'll need. When I climb at devils lake I usually end up bringing too much gear. That's the biggest thing that's holding me back with trad climbing and probably the major reason I can lead mid 11's sport and only 8/9's trad.
I'd recommend going the opposite way - abandon the guide books and develop an eye. Being able to walk up to a rock, scope out the lines and map your abilities and gear to those lines is kind of the heart of the deal, or at least it is for FAs. If you always use guidebooks you may never develop an eye or understand what your abilities really are.

Might give it a whirl. Will you epic occasionally? Absolutely and that's a sure sign you're learning.

Risk/Reward/Repeat...
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Nivel Egres wrote: It's about trusting or not trusting your placements. Any solid 5.12 sport climber will be able follow a trad 5.12 and could certainly flash a trad 5.10 (yup, even at the Gunks). In fact, bouldering is probably the best possible training for trad.
Climbing and placing gear are 2 completely different things. No different than saying you can top rope a 5.13 but can only lead a 5.11 sport. To be perfectly honest climbing with preset draws vs having to clip your own draws and rope are 2 different things also.

I know sport routes i can't climb without preset draws due to reach but if they are already clipped to the wall i can lead it no problem.

If you can climb to the point that you can free solo what you trad... is your trad gear placement even going to really matter?

It comes down to alot more mental than really physical ability alot of times. If you are questioning your gear placements (because you don't know what you are doing) than your grade level for what you can climb really drops.

To be honest though i love climbing trad because i don't care what level trad i climb. I just go look at a wall and try to get to the top. Who cares what level you climb. The only time i really push myself to the edge for pure climbing ability is when i am bouldering.
JeffL · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

Get good at falling. There is a art to it. If possible push back away from the wall so you can protect yourself and possibly avoid a ledge.

Climb in the dark on purpose so that when you epic later in life you're more prepared

doligo · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 264

Climb with friends or at least people you like, life is too short to climb with people you don't like. Yes, even cragging. Or should I say especially cragging, because you get to hang out with your partner(s) more?

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Nivel Egres wrote:It's about trusting or not trusting your placements.
And there is so much more that goes into establishing that trust beyond sticking a chunk of metal in rock; things like:

- being comfortable with what you are doing to begin with
- understanding the rope system you are attempting to establish relative to drag on the pitch
- having situational awareness on the line relative to placements
- knowing when it's better to simply climb on rather than stop for and dick around with the pro
- being able to read / plan placements ahead
- being able to read placements, pick the right piece first time and get it placed the first try
- continuously reading the fall potential / dynamics relative to last and next placement
- learning if you're any good at placing pro no matter how much you do it

Can lack of much of the above be compensated for if you boulder highball V5X confidently and lead sustained 5.13d sport? Absolutely, but can you? No? Then you're going to want to work up through the grades in trad. Certainly doesn't hurt to augment that with bouldering or sport, but the idea that just anyone can bypass following a lot of trad pitches and leading up through trad grades will meet a hard wall the first time you jump on something real.
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

A lot of good information in this thread,.... and some stuff about goats, which matters less to me.

I've learned some lessons in my short time trad climbing:

If the rope is stacked badly, flake it before your partner starts the next pitch (but ideally, don't let it get this way to being with). Your partner may be annoyed that you're wasting time flaking/restacking it (or maybe they won't be), but they'll be more annoyed if you short rope them at the crux.

There's nothing marginal about a tiny cam in a marginal placement, it's just bad. I took on a 0 Mastercam and had it pop on me. It was in chossy rock and it was all I could get, but it wasn't good enough.

A bomber tricam in an overhead placement is worth the time to set. No walking, no worries. I've been caught by two now, on the same pitch.

Climbing choss can be very educational. It makes you appreciate quality rock and really search for placements.

Don't blindly trust the ratings on unpopular, infrequently climbed route. It may have been PG 10 years ago, but it's not that now. Or someone sandbagged it and there's been little enough traffic to gain a consensus. Or, it's just crumbled away in the last decade. I found myself borderline soloing a 5.8 just yesterday because the placements were so few and poor. It's never pleasant to hear "If you'd fallen you probably would have hit the ground." by your more experienced follower, and "This is not PG!" along with laughing, as he's climbing up to you.

When following, evaluate placements. If you're new, you should be learning. If you're experienced, check to make sure your partner is doing things right. I like feedback whenever possible because I want to set gear well to protect myself *and* my partner. I also want to know they're doing things right.

There's no shame in top roping. I don't want to lead any R or X rated routes, but that doesn't mean I don't want to climb them.

There's a fine line between setting passive pro hard enough it won't come out from rope drag, and so hard that you frustrate the second when they clean it. After having my first nut pull out from rope drag (which may have happened as I was pulling the slack up, or may not), I decided I'd rather set too hard than not hard enough.

Backing off a pitch is a hard thing to do to the ego, but sometimes it's the smart thing to do. Down climbing is a VERY useful tool to have in your toolbox.

Gear is for protection, but not the purpose of the route. I've had a number of instances where I get so focused on that next placement that I forget how to climb. Or sometimes so focused on climbing, I forget about the gear. So it's really nice when my belayer yells "Not yet!", as I stop to place gear 3' from my last placement. Or alternatively, "Time for another piece!" when I'm 15-20' above my last placement and cruzing along. So as a belayer, let your partner know when it's time (or not time) to get another piece in.

Bill M · · Fort Collins, CO · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317

Mathias,

I would find one really good pitch close to Loveland and do it a couple times as a second; then come back and lead it again and again and again until its so wired you could lead it in your sleep. P1 of Diagonal at Combat Rock come to mind. mountainproject.com/v/diago… You can get good gear in on this pitch but the placements are not trivial and there are a few spots you have to find a stance a with your feet a few feet above your last piece.

Once you have this pitch wired you will start comparing moves on other climbs to it and you will have the confidence that if you can float P1 of Diagonal you can make those moves. Then find a slightly harder pitch somewhere else that you can get to and work on it for a while.

It's much harder to go around onsighting things, than working a route over. There is no reason you can't find a few 5.9s or soft 5.10s and work on them as an alternative to doing a bunch of 5.7s and .8s once.

Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306

Thanks Bill. I'll have to look into that.

r m · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 0
TFCC injuries suck. 3-4 years after surgery, I find pushing a door open still hurts.

I learnt that climbing with straight wrists reduces my wrist injury rate. I learnt to think about how I'm loading body parts, and what might tear if I pull too hard.
GabeO · · Boston, MA · Joined May 2006 · Points: 302
Mike Anderson wrote:A very common mistake is trying to work through the grades on trad climbs. Instead, work on being a good climber, not a good trad climber, then once you have achieved that, it is very easy to apply "good climbing" skills to the sub-discipline of trad climbing. The fastest way to becoming a good climber is bouldering and sport climbing.
This is terrible advice if you ever want to be a decent trad climber.

If you want to be a good trad climber, you have to climb a lot of trad. Sure, it helps to do other stuff too. But once you are really good at sport/gym/bouldering, and you try to transition over to trad climbing, you have a ton of things in your own way.

GO
losbill · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 130
wivanoff wrote:Bring a working headlamp
Best advice on this thread yet.
Brian M · · Long Beach, CA · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 155

Bump again , always down to hear some good advice

Juana · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 5

Don't go crack climbing on polished granite the day after it rains. I know this sounds obvious...but we had limited time in the area and really wanted to climb this particular climb.

Rick Blair · · Denver · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 266

Go for easy belays even if you pitch it out. Running out the rope and fiddling around with a fewer number of tricky belays takes more time than easy more frequent belays.

reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125

Trad is a dead end?

Rob D · · Queens, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30

My name (rob) sounds a lot like Rock. When someone yells "rob", don't look up. it's actually a rock.
I got a rock to the face, took out my front three (pushed them flat back), and I put them back in place myself. Lots of blood, a couple ER visits and emergency dentist visit later and I somehow have my own teeth, but barely (bunch of root canals and soon-to-be-dead fronts)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Trad Climbing
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