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Why throw ropes for rappel?

Original Post
Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

I've always wondered why people insist on throwing their rope(s) down when they are about to rappel. It makes more sense to me to lower them. Tell me if I'm missing anything:

- Lowering the ends helps you find the middle of the rope.
- Lowering the ends ensures there aren't any tangles, twists or knots.
- Lowering the ends keeps the wind from grabbing them and wrapping them around the side of the wall or tower.

- Throwing the rope(s) may be a little quicker
- Throwing the rope increases the change you will run into a knot or tangle on the way down
- Throwing the rope allows the wind to catch and carry it, maybe getting it stuck

In super windy conditions I know most people just rap with a coil but even then I've found lowering the ends to work quite well. So why is it that most people I see climbing just grab the stack of rope and toss it out into space? Just doesn't seem like the best idea.

Taylor Jenkins · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0

Another good time to lower the ropes: when your rappel route is the same as someone's climbing route. This comes into play a lot when I'm at Seneca Rocks. There are lots of ways up but only a few ways down and the rappel routes usually overlap popular climbs.

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

Lowering the ropes lets them snag on any projections on the way down (trees, rock outcroppings) if there are any.

Mikey Seaman · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 5

There's no way that throwing your rope is more likely to tangle your rope. If you lower your rope, the rock can get stuck on a ledge and then you'll just keep lowering into a nasty pile that can get knotted up. Sure, if you blindly grab piles of your role and chuck em, maybe. But it is not more likely to tangle, all things being equal.

We lowered our rope off of Dream of Wild Turkeys in RR and the rope got so tangled in a crack/hueco system that it took hours to get it free. I like to throw my rope because I like to see that the rope has fallen its full length, snag free. If its windy, I throw in two smaller coils, first throwing the coil closest to the anchor, then I whip the ends of the rope coil out-because there's already rope airborne, this second coil stays together longer and will go where you throw it, with some practice and good timing.. You can also still find the midpoint before you throw your ropes. I only lower when there are people directly below me (not often), and even then I'll throw it as often as I can. Lowering your rope is about as cool as my thumb in your ear.

Derek Doucet · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 66
Ryan Williams wrote:I've always wondered why people insist on throwing their rope(s) down when they are about to rappel. It makes more sense to me to lower them. Tell me if I'm missing anything: - Lowering the ends helps you find the middle of the rope. - Lowering the ends ensures there aren't any tangles, twists or knots. - Lowering the ends keeps the wind from grabbing them and wrapping them around the side of the wall or tower. - Throwing the rope(s) may be a little quicker - Throwing the rope increases the change you will run into a knot or tangle on the way down - Throwing the rope allows the wind to catch and carry it, maybe getting it stuck In super windy conditions I know most people just rap with a coil but even then I've found lowering the ends to work quite well. So why is it that most people I see climbing just grab the stack of rope and toss it out into space? Just doesn't seem like the best idea.
A very reasonable question / observation. There are lots of times when throwing the rap ropes is not the best option. Depending on the situation, I frequently saddle-bag them and bring them down with me or lower the first climber who therefore takes the ropes down with him/her. I also sometimes carefully throw them if the rap is straight, clean and with a reasonable line of sight. Very ocassionally I'll just lower them as suggested above, but I find that in really windy conditions, this just doesn't work unless it's on a very low angle slab. Even then, if it's really blowing, I prefer other methods. These are all just tools in the toolbox, to be applied in the right place and at the right time.

Cheers,

Derek
MTKirk · · Billings, MT · Joined Dec 2011 · Points: 245

If there's any chance of snagging, I prefer to bag the rope. I stack the end(s) in a re-usable grocery bag(s) clipped to my harness (one on each side for two strands), the rope flakes out as I go. No hassle and no tangles.

Chris Rice · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 55

Those "plates" at Red Rocks just live to eat ropes. I'm very careful there when rappelling.

Ben Brotelho · · Albany, NY · Joined May 2011 · Points: 520

Lots of trees, cracks, ledges for the rope to be gently lowered into, then stuck.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

It looks and feels more Trad to throw the ropes.

William Sonoma · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 3,550

I think both coiling then throwing and just lowering have their place, situation dictates. I do however throw more often than lower because one time at Seneca on the West Pole rapp I lowered my 8mm double and it went into a crack that was open (where my rope went in) then the crack closed but maintained its openness behind and finally the rope came out the bottom (think a straw) when the crack opened again. It was a cluster fuck of a situation and not easy or fun to correct. How often have Ihad issues lowering? This is the only time I can think of. Both techniques have a place in my "tool box".

pfwein Weinberg · · Boulder, CO · Joined May 2006 · Points: 71

Others have said the same thing, but lowering the ropes into a rope-eating crack is a mistake I don't want to make more than once (and I've already made it). If that's not an issue, lowering is fine and what I usually do.

Paul Trendler · · Bend, Oregon · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 111

I've taken some good technique advice from Semi-Rad:

vimeo.com/43914348

That being said, if it's windy, I'm usually bringing down with me.

Jeff Johnston · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 110

Its completly situational.
In my area, the climb is steeper than the decent.
the decent is useuly like a 5.5/6 and lowering a rope down such a ramp would create a tangled mess of spegetti. So throwing the rope out makes for a lot less mess on the decent.

But if the rap is steep and there is little risk of snags than by all means lower the rope.

Evan Sanders · · Westminster, CO · Joined Dec 2010 · Points: 140

What about neither?

I've never personally tried this, but I have heard of some people on windy days just flaking it on a ledge which lets the rope unravel as you rappel. I'd love to hear from anyone else who might have done this before

sherb · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60

I've never heard of lowering, always thrown.

MTKirk wrote:If there's any chance of snagging, I prefer to bag the rope. I stack the end(s) in a re-usable grocery bag(s) clipped to my harness (one on each side for two strands), the rope flakes out as I go. No hassle and no tangles.
I'll have to try this!

Chris Rice wrote:Those "plates" at Red Rocks just live to eat ropes. I'm very careful there when rappelling.
We threw our rope and one end ended up "flossing" a flake, that I didn't notice till I had rapped down beneath the flake. Pulling on it didn't work b/c the knot was on the other side, and whipping it didn't work either. I had to climb up to free the rope.

mike seaman wrote:We lowered our rope off of Dream of Wild Turkeys in RR and the rope got so tangled in a crack/hueco system that it took hours to get it free.
Crazy but true, rappeling can take as long as climbing!
Ty Morrison-Heath · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 2,053
Evan Sanders wrote:What about neither? I've never personally tried this, but I have heard of some people on windy days just flaking it on a ledge which lets the rope unravel as you rappel. I'd love to hear from anyone else who might have done this before
If you do this and it snags above you you will have to jug the line to get it untangled. I learned long ago to clean the rope as I move down the rap instead of waiting until the snag is above me and pulling on it. Around these parts that is a great way to pull rocks down upon yourself too.
Marc H · · Longmont, CO · Joined May 2007 · Points: 265
Evan Sanders wrote:What about neither? I've never personally tried this, but I have heard of some people on windy days just flaking it on a ledge which lets the rope unravel as you rappel. I'd love to hear from anyone else who might have done this before
I'm assuming you're talking about flaking the rope on the ledge from which you're rappelling. If so, it's not a good idea because if the rope gets snagged on anything above you, it can be a bitch to free the snag, especially if you're on an overhanging rappel.

To the OP:
The only time I've noticed it's beneficial to lower the rope as opposed to throwing it is on overhanging rock.

Also, I've noticed most people lap coil the rope before throwing it which is more likely to get tangled on the way down. A mountaineers coil (circular) comes apart much cleaner.
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349

Do it any fucking way you want. Me? I'm throwing that fucker like there's no tomorrow.

And on that note. What's this BULLSHIT where people get mad at you if you don't saying, "Falling", when falling? Here's some news. If you have the time to say, "Falling", you fucking probably let go intentionally.

Over and out!

Ryan Williams · · London (sort of) · Joined May 2009 · Points: 1,245

Not sure how we got to the "falling" thing, but I have never said it. Seems kind of weird to me but to each their own.

Anyways, thanks for all the replies. Just something I've always been curious about. I do actually throw the ropes when I am on anything low angled or if there is a chance that I could be lowering the ends into a rope eating crack - guess I left that out. But now that I think about it most of the rappels I do are vertical and overhanging.

Also, now that I think about it I sort of do a combination of both. I usually coil up 10m or so from the ends and throw it, for the very reason that I don't want the ends going into some crack. As gravity takes the ends, I just lower the rope the rest of the way.

If I'm rapping the route, I just set up the rappel and lower one end as I'm belaying my second up to me.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
Jeff J wrote:Its completly situational. In my area, the climb is steeper than the decent. the decent is useuly like a 5.5/6 and lowering a rope down such a ramp would create a tangled mess of spegetti. So throwing the rope out makes for a lot less mess on the decent. But if the rap is steep and there is little risk of snags than by all means lower the rope.
easiest answer to read yet

boil it down +1
Locker · · Yucca Valley, CA · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,349
"Not sure how we got to the "falling" thing".

I went off on a tangent.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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