What's most important to you as a climber when climbing indoors?

Woodchuck ATC wrote:I want women! I want sleek friendly climbing girls who don't have an attitude about them and who might even be looking for an outdoor climbing partner sometime. A nice social setting is best, snotty attitude is the worst element in a gym.

Woodchuck, the other day two old timers like yourself butted in front of me trying to lead this 10b cos one of them wanted to "really quickly" do this 12 c....he was probably working for years...what happened to ladies first and beauty before age? No wonder women dont wanna talk to the snotty non,polite old timers...

Frequent turnover of routes/problems.

Enough problems at the grades I want to climb or project.

Quality of movement, especially on hard problems (most setters suck at setting difficult problems that don't involve dynos/hucks, hand-foot matches, and other BS I never actually do on real rock)

Climate control.

Child control.
Maintenance of existing routes/tape. (tons of times tape goes missing and you'll go "wow that was hard for V-whatever" only to find out it's because a hold was missing tape. Not an issue when projecting, but a big issue when trying to arrange 4x4s or even warming up)

If there is a youth team, the coaches need to ensure they aren't taking over entire sections of wall and that the younger kids undestand ettiquette (not jumping in front of people who are queing, etc)

Nothing. I dislike it greatly versus real rock!

That's just IMHO - tho I know many will disagree!

Alex Washburne wrote:Intermediate-Advanced A variety of angles of walls (with a lot of overhangs, but a slab is nice too), comfortable + textured holds (i.e. not old, greasy and glassy), constant turnover of routes and problems (if I can get one new project a week, then we're in business!), lead-only sections of the wall, good route-setting with somewhat consistent grades (though 'quality' is subjective, there are still classic climbs and POS's and the goal of route setting is to try to set one classic climb after another), a campus board, and experienced staff. Cracks are nice, especially if it's possible to have several cracks of varying widths/difficulty. Backing up a bit, I like to think that there are two kinds of gyms: climbing gyms and climber's gyms. The former is for hosting swarms of screaming kids who are too young and uninformed to know just how hard the place sucks; the latter is a facility for die-hard climbers to train after a day of work, replenish psyche after a humbling trip outdoors, and meet new partners who want to get outside. Everything I recommended is for a climber's gym. If you want a climbing gym, do the opposite of everything I recommend in an effort to reduce costs, and then embrace the tragic, self-fulfilling prophecy whereby you justify your decadent shack by saying most of your money comes from kids' birthday parties anyways.

That pretty much sums it up.

I'd also like to add that the opening hours are very important. I can choose to either open my store or close it - I close it so that I can be in the climbing gym in the morning, when no one else is there. I live w/in walking distance of a great bouldering gym but they don't open 'til noon (2pm on some days) so I never go in there. Instead I go to a larger one that is a few miles up the road, closer to work. They both cost about the same, and I'd be happy to train at either, but I stick with the one near work because of their hours.

Moreover, the bouldering gyms in Central London are open at 6am for people who like to train before work. Depending on where I move to this fall, I may end up choosing that schedule since my wife is up that early most mornings training for marathons.

I know it's not realistic for all climbing gyms to be open at all hours, but you have to know your market and build your schedule around said market.

Ben Brotelho wrote:Indoor climbing is neither. Just felt like I had to say that.

I lol'd

Ian Stewart wrote: I'd be willing to bet that you're the only person who would consider 13+ or v9 to be "intermediate", especially with respect to climbing gyms. Unless you live in boulder, where everybody climbs 12, I'd guess most gyms would use something like this: Beginner: Up to easy 10 Intermediate: Mid 10 to mid 11 Advanced: Hard 11 to mid 12 Open: Hard 12 and up.

Regardless of what you think that is 'moderate' climbing. Ryan Palo lists himself as advanced, not open, and there is no way I'm putting myself in the same category. The grades I listed are not hard. I got to what I consider intermediate in Indiana, so my perspective is far from skewed.

shotwell wrote: Ryan Palo lists himself as advanced, not open, and there is no way I'm putting myself in the same category.

That's how sandbagging starts, lol. I'm surprised nobody has mentioned not getting hurt...cause that sucks more than anything else indoors.

Advanced: My last count was 72 gyms including 1 in Japan that I've visited in the past 6 years. I travel a lot for work and indoorclimbing.com is an awesome resource.

I look for a few things to help judge how I feel about a gym: Overall Gym Quality, Quality of bouldering, Quality of routes, Attitudes of owners/workers, Attitudes of climbers, and Cost. I've been to some of the smallest/dumpiest gyms in the US and they'll try to charge $18 for a day pass.

The best gyms that have stood out for me were: The new Hoosier Heights in Northern Indiana (possibly the best gym in the US in my opinion), Planet Granite in San Fran, & Planet Rocks in Michigan.

Hoosier Heights had everything I'd ever want to climb and it's still growing. Plenty of routes, lots of varied bouldering, a traverse boulder, lots of training equipment (two HIT boards and two system boards), a speed wall, and the best feature of all was the Snake! This feature was so crazy and unique I couldn't stop talking about it when I got home. The employees that I met and the climbers were super friendly and the climbing shop had everything you'd ever need.

The most important thing indoors is how quickly one can get to the great outdoors.

When I chimneyed up the hallway at home it was really important not to land on the floor heater ...

Also: I'm working on my resistance.

Ummmm.... Looking cool

Attitude of employees and owners imop this is most important! I go to gym and they have serious tude. If i had a closer option i would have gone someplace else a long time ago. One or two bad seeds can spoil it for the bunch.

Second is staff not allowing children to run wild like it is some playground. An managing parents when needed also!

Third is staff doing it's best as to not allow gang roping of large groups. Often the gym will schedule these large groups and it can often make going to the gym a huge wast of time.

Changing routes on the regular.

Cost $16-18 a day is robbery. I understand a gym needs to make a profit and maybe the high price is what it takes but i kinda wonder.

shotwell wrote:Regardless of what you think that is 'moderate' climbing.

5.13+ is definitely not 'moderate'. Go find some threads where people are asking for moderate route suggestions. You won't find 5.13+ mentioned anywhere. We're talking about public climbing gyms here, where your skill level is relative to the general public. Compared to pro climbers you may be 'moderate', but compared to the general public you are far from that. Many gyms barely even venture into 5.13 territory because the number of people climbing that level is so low.

shotwell wrote:Ryan Palo lists himself as advanced, not open, and there is no way I'm putting myself in the same category.

Just because Ryan sandbagged his skill level doesn't mean you need to. Ryan climbs 14+ and is a La Sportiva Regional climber. Again, maybe only 'advanced' when compared to other pro climbers, but in this context there's no denying that he's 'open'.

shotwell wrote:The grades I listed are not hard.

To you. To most people, they are very hard.

my current irk - gym I go to only has 3 lead ropes and you can't bring your own. they're notorious for being overcrowded, so it's always a race to get a rope, or you just wait for someone else to finish. Their route setting is unbelievably good, but I'm changing gyms because I am tired of it and the new nyc gym looks amazing.

Ian Stewart wrote: Just because Ryan sandbagged his skill level doesn't mean you need to. Ryan climbs 14+ and is a La Sportiva Regional climber. Again, maybe only 'advanced' when compared to other pro climbers, but in this context there's no denying that he's 'open'. To you. To most people, they are very hard.

Lordy! If you saw what I actually did in the gym, you'd never guess what I've done on the rock. For the most part, I climb moderate to advanced routes. Most of the stuff I do is to maintain power endurance. I enjoy climbing a nicely set v4 just like everyone else. Didnt mean to skew this thread. My bad.

I'll echo one other thing I read in this thread. It's the staff. Hire folks who know what they're talking about but are not itching to get outside/are pissed about being there. Also avoid staff who have one approach to everything. Those people usually dont jive well with the myriad of techniques you'll see in a gym. Also, invest in route setters. Im not just saying that because I was one for years, but because a good setter can do a lot with meager resources. I've met plenty of people who can set amazing problems with $200 worth of holds. Give them a set of old EPs and you've got a plastic ladder.

Autobelay.

Great way to keep in shape doing laps without wasting partners time. Just adds a lot of flexibility to know you can get routes in without having to always coordinate with partners.

Dubstep.

Good routes. Good ropes/mats. Good systems boards, weights, and other training equipment. Good people. Good music. In that order.

• Also, if it is dingy, with an abundance of chalk and/or spray in the air, I will avoid it like the plague.

My highest outdoor send levels are on listed my profile page, though I typically have to work pretty hard for those. My onsite level is around 5.11 or v3.

Please tell me this is market research for a new ropes gym in the Denver metro area. :)

good setting, stoke, and of course dubstep!

No dubstep. Hipster free Wednesdays. All toddlers must be on a leash.