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Man Dies Swinging From Utah Rock Arch

Reginald McChufferton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Clifton Santiago · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0
Reginald McChufferton wrote: Thanks for the proactive moderation Pete but please explain how this is a CLIMBING related death again? Furthermore, could you please explain how it matters one iota what some dbags on some silly litte interwebz site say about this? What's up with all the over active moderation from you guys? Why do you give a shit what we have to say about this and why do you feel such a strong need to control what others think, say and feel in a public forum that's whole point of existence is to talk about shit like this?
This accident reflects on climbers the same way the financial meltdown reflects on bankers- it was Wall Street that sunk the ship, applying the tools and techniques of bankers in a way they were not intended to be used. Don't like that analogy-cool, read on.

This is not some silly little interwebz site populated by misinformed dbags- it is one of the premiere websites for climbing and mountain adventure on the internet with posters who have in many respects set the standards of the sport in their own small ways. And yes, there are some d-bags.

It matters what people say in this forum about fatal accidents because we all are one bad day away from seeing a friend discussed in a similar thread, being held subject to arm-chair analysis from what boils down to voo-doo chest beating cowards- people who think that by belittling the mistakes of others they are insulating themselves from accidents. Analysis is one thing, but at some point it becomes morbid and disrespectful. I don't think this thread is a particularly egregious example of such, but it's something to keep in mind.

Mr. Franzen's post was merely a civilized plea for temperance and respect as I read it, and a call to be moderate in our discussions of a fatal accident, not a call for big-brother censorship of honest opinion. Perhaps I've read too much into it, but when a man has lost his life, perhaps it is better to opine less and sympathize more.
todd w · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2008 · Points: 0

Well put.

Reginald McChufferton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
Clifton Santiago · · Denver, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 0
Reginald McChufferton wrote: I'm not sure which part of your self aggrandizing post to laugh at first. Your straw man argument comparing this accident to the largest financial crises since the Great Depression? No, wait, it gets better! This little gem almost made me piss myself... " one of the premiere websites for climbing and mountain adventure on the internet with posters who have in many respects set the standards of the sport in their own small ways. " ... Really? Um OK. Glad you think this site is the shizzle. Hope that helps you get through your very important day. 'Course you might want to broaden your Internet horizons and check out some of the other sites available. " It matters what people say in this forum about fatal accidents because we all are one bad day away from seeing a friend discussed in a similar thread" ... Yeah no one should EVAR be allowed to post something that might offend your delicate sensibilities or force you to actually examine your own practices. I mean, you might actually know someone who does stupid shit like this. And finally this little sentence just sets you up to be the internet morality and ethics committee all by your little lonesome doesn't it?... "when a man has lost his life, perhaps it is better to opine less and sympathize more" What if I think the man was a complete idiot and his death was the natural consequences of his retarded decision? Wouldn't the best take away from this story be that he was a moron that killed himself doing something stupid so don't be like the stupid, dead moron and kill yourself with a rope swing? Thanks again for telling me how I should think or feel about this!
You're welcome.
Reginald McChufferton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0
This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.
coloradotomontana Erley · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Dec 2008 · Points: 75

Your an angry little guy aren't you? breathin all heavy tryin to refresh the page as fast as you can, thesaurus.com at the ready. I think its probably time for a nap.

Reginald McChufferton · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0
Pat Erley wrote:Your an angry little guy aren't you? breathin all heavy tryin to refresh the page as fast as you can, thesaurus.com at the ready. I think its probably time for a nap.
See, now that's the kind of thing this thread needs more of. Well played sir!
Alex Washburne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 65

Well put, Clifton & Peter.

A "young, fit, fun-loving person" died, and while we can and should learn from his mistake, we can never fill the hole that has been put in the lives of his friends and family. My condolences go to every one who knew and loved Kyle, and I hope they recover from the loss and keep getting outdoors.

Alex Washburne · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 65

PS, Reginald

I and many people I've talked with agree wholeheartedly with Clifton, so he's not on a lonesome morality committee but rather is the voice of reason in stark contrast to your belligerent rants. You're entitled to think and feel whatever you want; I think and feel that you are being a raving, insensitive jerk. I will pre-emptively save myself the trouble from another post by saying that your response to this, if any, will almost surely prove my thoughts and feelings to be correct. If it doesn't, then I have done the world a favor and tamed the beast.

AOSR · · Green Mnt · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 255
Reginald McChufferton wrote: See, now that's the kind of thing this thread needs more of. Well played sir!
Right! More pointless shit talking and less content and demonstrative intelligence. So let me see if I have this right: "You probably feel this way about rope jumps because you're a retard and couldn't rig one yourself if you tried!!! If you disagree with me, we should probably meet up and fight somewhere!" Give me a break.

On a more serious note, I wonder what the real story was. Does anyone have details that didn't wash down from single sentence mainstream media regurgitation? It would seem unlikely that someone would just pay out some rope and then jump... I for one would like to learn both about and from the mistake assuming that's not the case.

I also wonder if the first major light cast on rock climbing was so negative. Practically no one has even heard of this sort of thing minus a few old Dan Osman vids and suddenly we have a video going viral and an accidental death airing on the 6 o'clock news to accompany it. Not the greatest birth into the spotlight for the sport.
GhaMby Eagan · · Heaven · Joined Oct 2006 · Points: 385
Fall Guy wrote:what was he doing swinging on a Sunday in Utah anyways?
He's probably from Rad-o since Moab is the nicest place in all of Colarado.
EricSchmidt · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0
Pat Erley wrote:Your an angry little guy aren't you? breathin all heavy tryin to refresh the page as fast as you can, thesaurus.com at the ready. I think its probably time for a nap.
what did he need thesaurus.com for? The biggest word he used was preservation....
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
AOSR wrote: Right! More pointless shit talking and less content and demonstrative intelligence. So let me see if I have this right: "You probably feel this way about rope jumps because you're a retard and couldn't rig one yourself if you tried!!! If you disagree with me, we should probably meet up and fight somewhere!" Give me a break. On a more serious note, I wonder what the real story was. Does anyone have details that didn't wash down from single sentence mainstream media regurgitation? It would seem unlikely that someone would just pay out some rope and then jump... I for one would like to learn both about and from the mistake assuming that's not the case. I also wonder if the first major light cast on rock climbing was so negative. Practically no one has even heard of this sort of thing minus a few old Dan Osman vids and suddenly we have a video going viral and an accidental death airing on the 6 o'clock news to accompany it. Not the greatest birth into the spotlight for the sport.
Her statment (generally). Family was at/under the arch Sunday. All of a sudden a rope and a bag - looked like a small camel back- came flying down and just about hit my daughter. My husband immediately starting yelling at the people above..... We all backed off from under the arch immediatly and then saw the people standing on the arch. Then we saw a person (young man) jump and kind of swing and then the next instant his upper body hit and his face and body dragged across a wide section of rock. There was blood everywhere. We immediatly left the area and went to the car. This after the people on the arch yelled out that they had cell coverage and had called 911 - para medics were on the way. Our (grown) son stayed until the para medics showed up. My son said there was not much left of his face and there was so much blood. The Para medics told him that he apparently died at impact

bogley.com/forum/showthread…

now im not saying that all rope swingers are "reckless" ... but throwing a pack down and almost hitting someone isnt safe for the people below ...

there was also a rope swing incident at smith where someone jumped, and peeled climbers off the wall with serious injuries

just like climbing ... risk yourself all you want ... DONT put other people at risk ...

the thing with "rope swings" IMO ... is that theres a decent possibility of other people who have nothing to do with the swing to get hurt if you dont do things properly ... yr swinging around popular areas with bodies flying around ...

of course theres always that possibility with climbing as well, but you dont often see vids with 17 million hits where people think all they need is a rope and WHEEE

theres a glorification of risk without skill ... and of things youd never accept otherwise ... i mean since when is it acceptable to push someone off a cliff on video against their will?

i expect there to be more accidents, the swingers, and innocent people get hurt ... its happened already and itll happen again
Crag Dweller · · New York, NY · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
Peter Franzen wrote:Moderation: Even though this is in General Climbing and not the Injuries & Accidents forum I would hope that we can keep it civil and avoid any insulting or slandering attitudes towards a kid who just lost his life. Please have some respect and don't let this devolve into a flamewar; this is a climbing-related death and it should be treated with respect. /Moderation
+1
AOSR · · Green Mnt · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 255

@beerbreader:

Thank you for the informative and non-antagonistic post. From that accounting the incident does indeed seem horribly reckless. Unfortunately, there is not a lot to learn from it that isn't a given.

Having set up numerous rope jumps it is inconceivable to me that they were throwing test bags where bystanders could be hit by them or that they were endangering anyone but themselves to begin with.

As I stated earlier, I'd like to make it clear that not all people engaging in this sort of risky and extreme activity are doing so recklessly while endangering other people. Whether it's climbing, high lining, BASE jumping, or rope jumping, there will always be people who have no idea what they're doing, with no consideration of others, that cast a bad light on those who are experienced and do care for those around them.

What a truly horrible catastrophe.

chuffnugget · · Bolder, CO · Joined Sep 2011 · Points: 0

From the link above, it sounds like they tossed a camelback, but didn't account for dynamic rope stretch. Sad.

I posted the original thread linking to the video a while back,

mountainproject.com/v/world…

and I asked the question of whether this type of activity should be publicized via a video with 17 million views.

At the time, most disagreed with me and said it is perfectly fine to film and promote this sort of thing. How about now?

AOSR · · Green Mnt · Joined Jul 2008 · Points: 255
David Sahalie wrote:From the link above, it sounds like they tossed a camelback, but didn't account for dynamic rope stretch. Sad. I posted the original thread linking to the video a while back, mountainproject.com/v/world… and I asked the question of whether this type of activity should be publicized via a video with 17 million views. At the time, most disagreed with me and said it is perfectly fine to film and promote this sort of thing. How about now?
I would still disagree. I've seen a lot of BASE jumping videos and would like to--and indeed might--get into the sport. But I surely won't go buy a parachute and huck of some cliff not knowing the first thing about it.
todd w · · Unknown Hometown · Joined May 2008 · Points: 0
David Sahalie wrote:I posted the original thread linking to the video a while back, mountainproject.com/v/world… and I asked the question of whether this type of activity should be publicized via a video with 17 million views. At the time, most disagreed with me and said it is perfectly fine to film and promote this sort of thing. How about now?
Sadly prophetic, is all I can really say.

Part of me wants to say: "So what? Just look at all the climbing videos that glorify the sport"... Lots of parallels there...

...but then, I've never seen a climbing video that made a dangerous activity seem so casual. Even the free-solo videos make it pretty clear that these people are risking their lives, which is the exact opposite in the arch-swinging video. Instead, it gives a spring break vibe, kind of like they're trying to sell you a Pepsi on TV.

17 million views? Not really a big issue--the vast majority of those are couch potatoes who would never put on a climbing harness to begin with.

Did "excitement" or the video cost him his life? I don't think so--inexperience did. Rope stretch is something you learn to anticipate, and it may take a couple of years for that lesson to set in.
Christian "crisco" Burrell · · PG, Utah · Joined May 2007 · Points: 1,815

The video just made more who would try this sort of thing aware that there was a cool looking place to do it. Can't directly blame the video, but this was going to happen sooner or later for sure.
There is a forum discussion on Bogley where witnesses to the accident posted their comments.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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