Manufactured climbs

Is it ethical to alter already pre manufactured routes? After climbing at jacks canyon and seeing how many drilled pockets and chiseled edges were put into that beautiful stone I'm wondering who has the right to deface it. The climbing was pretty fun, like gym climbing with a beautiful view, but I still can't agree with modifying the routes like that. Especially if your going to manufacture a climb and rate it harder than it is just to boost your ego. Is this what climbing is all about? I propose refilling in some of the drilled pockets on many climbs to (1) restore some of the beauty and (2) make many of the climbs harder so they are better represented by their assigned grades. I respect the wishes of the first ascents when it comes to retro bolting however this is a different issue. Any thoughts?.

Is it ethical to chip/drill holds so you can get a FA? Is it ethical to join MP.com just so you can post up a lame attempt at trolling?
I think they are both grey areas.

My gut reaction is: who cares?

I manufactured climbs for 2 years...in the gym setting routes. that's where it should be restricted to.

You'd love the Riverside Quarry.

I think that people have an incredibly naive notion of what a developer does. At least, in the Red, it's hard to say that a route isn't manufactured. It's exceptionally rare that a developer bolts a route (or a puts a set of anchors) on a climb that has always been pristine. They often go back to hammer off chossy holds, clean out sand, and glue to reinforce potentially dangerous rocks. The rock we enjoy, at least in the RRG, is not virgin rock. That being said, I find that purposely gluing holds so that they continue to exist or the drilling of pockets to be unacceptable (a la Thug Life at Drive-By Crag).

You know OP this is a idea I agree with. Once I send my 5.12 proj I want to fill in holds to bump up the grade a little. I mean once somebodys screwed with the rock it is basically a gym so I just think of myself as a setter then.

I like to track down 5.8s and chip off the holds and smooth them out. I am not satisfyed untill they are at least a 5.12. In the guide book its still a 5.8 . . . but its not he he he he he

now stand back and watch the gumbies toss them selves at it bawhahahahahah.

Just kidding, I acctually tare the nails off of people with pliers that I see modifying routes outside.

Just kidding but no it wrong IMHO to chip routes.

todd w wrote:My gut reaction is: who cares?

if you want to restore some of the beauty why not chop those shiny bolts sticking of the wall. that would be a good step in the right direction. or just get over it walk away, dont climb it and find a new natural line to climb.