Would you buy this product? Walk Offs - protect your rock shoes

Because you still have to take off your climbing shoes and sandals are shit for walking on rougher terrain. The Walk-offs are supposed to be approach shoes you slip on over your climb shoes.

CaptainMo wrote: Seriously though, have you thought about these things??? Why is your idea better then these or a pair of closed toed sandals like a Keen? I commend you guys on a good idea. But in response to your comment about it being for gumbies... why would I even care about covering the rubber on my shoes if my shoes are loose comfortable beginner shoes that likely cost little and oh yeah I'm a beginner and don't really care enough about the rubber on my crappy beginner shoes?

And why does it have to be gumbies that only wear non aggressive climb shoes? I think there are tons of climbers who wear expensive shoes that are worth saving and that aren't aggressive climbers. I know people that have been climbing for over ten years that wear non aggressive shoes and don't like climbing anything over an 11.

at a local crag people wear shoe covers to keep sand and dirt off soles between climbs, these range from crocs to galoshes and shoe covers sold at hardward store. All very cheap and light.

I can't remember the brand name but a friend of mine started producing a similar product in the SE.... I haven't heard of any more news since then, nor have I seen more than one pair in the 3 years I've known about them....

just an fyi

Lawrence Housley wrote: And why does it have to be gumbies that only wear non aggressive climb shoes? I think there are tons of climbers who wear expensive shoes that are worth saving and that aren't aggressive climbers. I know people that have been climbing for over ten years that wear non aggressive shoes and don't like climbing anything over an 11.

Did you NOT just describe gumbie in the last 2 sentences? Seriously, I like that you guys are trying to come up w/ ideas, but no need to get all defensive about it.
As I have pointed out, whether or not this is a useful product, your marketing is all wrong. You don't explicitly state it's a beginner product (because everybody has the disillusion they'll become more than that in short order). You find a specific case that your product may be good for and market the shit out of it. In this case, TC Pro is your friend. It's a flat-sole high performance shoes that's popular w/ gumbies & good climbers. The ankle height lace means it's a PITA to take off & put on. It's expensive so you may want to prolong it's life. It's comfy enough to wear all day long. So, make a strong case for it (so what if you help Sportiva sell more pairs of TC Pros in the process).

Sure non aggressive, gumbies whatever - was just recalling ur post so whatever you like. You're saying the issue with flip flops is they suck on the downhill and you have to take your shoes off. Well by that right you have to stop and fit these to your shoes so what's the difference? You're taking away one step and adding another and I say that since stepping into a flip flop isn't really a process or step like putting on sneakers or boots (though I do slide my approach shoes on these days without tieing them so even that take a second. The other thing is that even non aggressive climbing shoes don't have the support or the positioning to be good for descending steep terrain so this product would have to integrate an approach shoe and support onto a climbing shoe to make it any better then just a crapy flip flop. So at that point you're now still putting on a pair of shoes (or something very close to it) but now u just don't have to take your tight ass climbing shoes off.. you can leave those uncomfortable things on. So wait why do I want to leave on these tight climbing shoes? Also I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how you think this product is actually going to secure to the shoe and not slide around or rotate around the foot as someone smears and traverses on steep slopes or scree. The sole would have to have some actually support and stiffness not to rotate imo.

No, I would not buy it.

rogerbenton wrote:would not buy this product regardless of cost. for me wanting to swap shoes for the walk off happens due to comfort issues long before "wear" is a concern. and this is true even in flat comfy "all day trad " shoes.

This here really makes the most sense... fundamental problem with the concept.

Again, I really appreciate the productive comments as well as the constructive criticism.

Since we created the idea, it would make sense that we would focus on the positives and the utility of it rather than the negative aspects of the design. I understand where all the comments are coming from and in reality, we owe everyone some thanks for giving us some great free feedback on the idea before we waste any money on prototypes and the final design.

Lastly, since we are creating a product that does not exist in the market, it would make sense that people do not see the utility. People always default to identifying low cost solutions instead of believing that the product can gain traction.

There are countless items that exist that can be solved in a cheap, roundabout way but people still choose to pay a premium to solve a problem quickly and easily.

Based on the feedback, I think these would be viable items as repel/multi pitch belay/ walk around betweeen sport climb shoes.

I no longer see them as viable for long walk off hikes or as highly functional approach shoes.

Great idea!

Okay, I'll admit my previous post was not very constructive. Here's a little more constructive feedback.

I just don't believe there's a market for this product. Lets look at the big picture:

First of all, you're targeting climbers, which is in itself a bit of niche market. Within the climbing market, you're targeting individuals who wear flat/non-aggressive shoes. Within the non-aggressive climbing shoe market, you're presumably looking at people who are wearing lace ups (I have a hard time believing that taking off/putting on moccs & velcro shoes is any more of a hassle than using your product). Now within the lace-up-non-agressive-climbing-shoe market, you're targeting people who are concerned about undue wear and tear on their shoes.

In short, your potential buyer is really a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the overall climbing market (which, remember, is something of a niche market to begin with, and quite saturated as it is).

Now lets talk about cost. These days it's not uncommon for people to spend upwards of $100 on a pair of shoes. As someone already pointed out, a good resole is going run you in the neighborhood of $40. Looking at your price point ($30 - $60), you're going to be directly competing with the resole market. I mean, why buy your product for $60 when I can just treat my shoes like shit and then send 'em in for a resole? Not to mention that if I just shelled out $100+ on some new climbing kicks, I probably don't want to spend another $30 - $60 on top of that.

Now, you may argue that your product will increase the overall lifespan of your shoe, thereby reducing the number of resoles you get and saving you some $$$. And I'm sure it's true that they would make your shoes last at least a little longer. There's just one problem: even with your product, climbing shoes wear out and need replacing. This means that the customer isn't actually going to get a return on their investment for a long time. If you could tell me that I'd never need another resole after buying your product, that'd be one thing. But it's simply not the case.

Sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear, I'm just trying to add a small dose of reality here. I hope you take my feedback into consideration.

I know what I'm talking about, I watch a lot of Shark Tank.

Fin the Human wrote:a good resole is going run you in the neighborhood of $40.

Where are people getting resoles for $40!!?? People keep saying that but I have never paid that for a resole.

Usually (90% of the time according to yosemite bum) the rands need to be replaced so right there its $45... plus $10 each way to ship them so it ends up costing closer to $60-70 for a resole by the time its all done.

EricSchmidt wrote: Where are people getting resoles for $40!!?? People keep saying that but I have never paid that for a resole. Usually (90% of the time according to yosemite bum) the rands need to be replaced so right there its $45... plus $10 each way to ship them so it ends up costing closer to $60-70 for a resole by the time its all done.

Rock and Resole in Boulder costs 35 I believe if you're not getting the toe cap done. Shipping will cost you about ten bucks, find someone to split shipping.

Enasser wrote: Based on the feedback, I think these would be viable items as repel/multi pitch belay/ walk around betweeen sport climb shoes. I no longer see them as viable for long walk off hikes or as highly functional approach shoes.

Best of luck to you guys, but I don't see the utility for any of the activities you list. If I'm rapping down something, I'm going to keep my climbing shoes on. If I'm on a multi pitch route, I'm not going to take the time to put these on over my shoes. What am I protecting the shoes from in that case? I'm probably not going to take the time to remove my shoes in the middle of setting up an anchor. And for sport climbing, I'm going to want to take my shoes off after climbing something. At that point just putting my sandals on is simple enough. I don't need to spend $60 to put something over what I want to take off. I had a pair of slippers like these one time, used them for road biking. They were $40 and uncomfortable as all hell. I used them once, then went and bought a pair of cheap flip flops and used those instead. Seems like a luxury product to me. And with climbing gear being as expensive as it is, I'd imagine people would want to spend that $60 on new nuts or a cam or something.

Lawrence Housley wrote:The bottom line, which most people seem to be missing, is that the target demographic is not an aggressive climber. The idea is for your weekend warriors and moderate climbers who wear shoes they can leave on for more than one route. At a recent visit to Shelf we commented how much of a pain it was to have to remove your climb shoes and put on socks/shoes just to walk wall to wall.

So your market is weekend warrior climbers who wear "all day comfort" shoes to Shelf and are so lazy they'd pay $30+ to not have to swap shoes for the one or two times they need to walk the quarter mile between walls during the day? How many of those people do you think there are? I haven't met any.

Lawrence Housley wrote:Because you still have to take off your climbing shoes and sandals are shit for walking on rougher terrain.

Which trails at Shelf are too gnarly to tackle with sandals?

I like innovation as much as the next guy, but if you have 3 pages of climbers saying "nah, that's silly", I wouldn't expect the product to do so well.

I figured as soon as we posted the idea we'd get comments from people whose chests puff out behind a keyboard...... quote>

Keeping my chest sucked in, and my aggressive toes safely curled away so as to not injure any fragile creative minds... I wouldn't buy this product because it screams "gumby noob", which, admittedly, is the market you're aiming at. It's just one more 'climbing accessory' for people who think taking up climbing is gonna make them look like Honnold in a TNF poster, find out otherwise, and quit. It'll end up in their unused bag of other extraneous accessories like belay gloves and go-pro cameras.

Enasser wrote:Based on the feedback, I think these would be viable items as repel/multi pitch belay/ walk around betweeen sport climb shoes.

Best of luck in your business venture. Let the market decide their viability. 100% of ideas fail when they aren't put into action, and all that. But--just a suggestion--don't advertise these as "repel" shoes, or you may repel those who rappel.

I saw the Evolve Cruzer at Neptune's, tried them on, and thought "I have to buy these shoes." They're great for descents and I've climbed 5.9 in them when I haven't felt like putting on my rock shoes. They climb really well and they're super light weight.

Walk-offs, on the other hand, are a horrible idea:

1) Climbing puts a ton more wear on your shoes than level ground ever will. Oozing off of a small sharp limestone hold at Shelf will chew through a sole way faster than "pebble, twigs and dirt" ever will.

2) Hardly anyone, not even noobs, buy climbing shoes that they want to wear all day. They take off their rock shoes and put on a pair of sandals or tennies whenever they can.

3) $30-60?

For the first time ever, I agree with everyone else here. I wouldn't buy them either.

Brian Hudson wrote: Don't advertise these as "repel" shoes, or you may repel those who rappel.

Thankfully, you beat me to it.