New Ice Tool Video Review of all the Petzl Tools! This really rocks!

Dane wrote:1973 after an ascent of Cascade waterfall WI3. Temp -30C and dropping but no wind. My second water ice lead, Sniveling gully had been the first a few weeks earlier. Screws?, 6 total, 4 Salewa and 2 Charlet corkscrews. Rope 150' Eldelrid, biners are forged Chouinard Ds. Wool everything except for the down sweater and Chouidard Supergaters. Trappeur Pro single boots inside those gaiters, Dachstein mitts. Troll, Whillains harness, Chouinard rigid crampons, Chouinard alpine hammer and a 55cm Chouinard bamboo axe. Seldom had more fun on the ice since. tools-and.html

Wow! Pretty much what I had and used back in the 80s' and so....Chouinard 55 cm and 45 cm axe and hammer, Chouinard Screws, Lowe Snargs, Chouinard 12 pt rigid crampons, Lowe Footfangs, Koflach boots (white ones then - forgot their name), Dachstein wool socks and mittens, IME Gore Tex pants, Beal or Edelweiss ropes, Whillians harness (loevd that damn harness)! LOL.

Ahh found them!

Thanks!

mountaingear.com/webstore/G…

Found this article in my search for umbilicals.

Interesting 'Do It Yourself Project.'

Home-made Umbilical

I am not a big fan of tuning picks although I have done lots of them. The upper pick is a new Petzl ICE pick tuned to have similar performance of the much loved previous Petzl Cascade picks which I never have tuned. I still use the Cascade for pure ice myself given a choice.

The lower pick is a new ICE pick with the teeth I cut down a -BIT- circled in pink if I wanted to tune the pick for pure ice. It is the sharp angle on the first tooth that causes the new ICE pick to stick on removal in pure ice. It is also the tooth you what to hook on thin ice and hard mixed.

More here on Petzl picks:

coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

Interesting Dane. So a question: could the very thing that makes my Quarks with ICE picks so damn good for thin, delaminated ice be what makes them kind of hard to remove on thick water ice after a solid swing?

Ben Brotelho wrote:Interesting Dane. So a question: could the very thing that makes my Quarks with ICE picks so damn good for thin, delaminated ice be what makes them kind of hard to remove on thick water ice after a solid swing?

exactly....and why I don't generally tune mine. Simply different tools for different jobs.

Kirby1013 wrote: I thought that right side of WW was a 6? That right side with the cave looked crazy stout last time I was there. We went up left, the easiest way! Hahaha..

RSWW is full value but never a WI6 even in the old days.
LSWW is a classic WI4, very comparable to and the same grade technically as Sniveling Gully. Imagine that with a short axe, a wrist sling and a Chouinard alpine hammer wih no sling while wearing wool mitts and screws you simply can't place!?

Makes even WI6 like this seem easy today...really, really easy as matter of fact. And no question, a hell of a lot safer.

Dane.. I have mad respect for you guys that been into the sport for a long time. I've used foot fangs and Hummingbirds so I have some idea of what it may have been like. I messed around with an Chouniard screw until a buddy said use your axe to turn the screw. That's when I gave up!!

I thought I read somewhere that RSWW was a 6, the middle a 5, and left a 4. Thanks for clearing that up. That whole wall is above my leading abilities. Haha..

I PMed you.

Kirby,
that is correct - back then we had to screw in the ice screws using the pick of our axe or hammer and the same to remove them. Then, I believe - in the early 1990's Chouinard released a 'ratchet tool' much like a Snap On auto ratchet which fitted over the end of the ice screw and one could 'ratchet' the screw in just as-if tightening a nut on a bolt, or taking the same off. It was a great boon believe me - tho sometimes it was a biotch on the wrist! We also had Lowe 'Snargs' - which were (see my attached pic - I still have them and use them in a real bad bind!) a pound in, screw out ice piton. Once pounded in - if cold enuff outside, they would freeze into the ice within seconds - and believe me - they DID freeze tight - b/c they were a biotch to unscrew afterwards! One had to do some chopping of the ice all around a Snarg to get them out afterward! I have never taken a fall on one, but like all of Lowe products - I felt (and still feel) that had their place in ice pro and were pretty cool. Dane could prob reflect on this a lot more than I can being he has 10,000x more climbing experience and savvy than I prob ever will.

When step in binding crampons came out - we'd thought we had died and gone to Heaven! No more neoprene straps again!

This is a Lowe / Camp SNARG. Notice the fine 'teeth' milled into the body that acted as screw threads to unscrew them when done. They also had a longitudal 'cleaning' slot milled in them in which you could take the pick of your hammer or axe and clean out the frozen ice inside of the SNARG to free it up - or, if that wasn't working - use the old fashioned method of tucking them inside your coat and letting your body heat thaw them enough so that the ice frozen inside the tube would just drop out after a few minutes!

Drive in, chop out. Or at least I think so. Only ever hammered them in, never followed a pitch using Snargs. But used them sparingly becasue of the effort required to remove them and always appreciated my seconds for bringing them up :)

The chouinard ratchete was indeed a handy little item. That and a hammer of course to get them warm enough to go in a bit on cold ice.

Sure beat the shit out of a Salewa tube though.

All that sounds crazy! This would be one of those times when I'm happy to be born in the late 70s. Haha..

Thanks for the pic Michael!

Dane wrote:Drive in, chop out. Or at least I think so. Only ever hammered them in, never followed a pitch using Snargs. But used them sparingly becasue of the effort required to remove them and always appreciated my seconds for bringing them up :) The chouinard ratchete was indeed a handy little item. That and a hammer of course to get them warm enough to go in a bit on cold ice. Sure beat the shit out of a Salewa tube though.

Very true! The Chouinards were much better quality screws! Harder steel, stronger, and have super sharp teeth that starting cutting on impact - not quite as good as today's screws but pretty close as I recall! Oh I had to remove lots of SNARGS being the 2nd on the rope! They are a real SOB to get out! Had to chop about 1/4th of the surface ice out around them, then hook your pick from your axe or hammer in the eye and turn them out just like a screw before the ratchet was invented! Sure a PITA - but boy they froze SOLID in the ice and I'd trust my life to 2 of them placed on a belay! They would freeze in mere minutes on a very cold day! LOL.

Yeah those were the days all right in some ways! Climbers today don't know HOW GOOD they have it with the newer tools, screws and crampon systems!

Kirby1013 wrote:All that sounds crazy! This would be one of those times when I'm happy to be born in the late 70s. Haha.. Thanks for the pic Michael!

No prob Kirby! Glad you enjoyed it.

I still have 3 of them and carry them on MY rack! They really work in a pinch, tho I have to say, seeing how well the new BD Turbo ice screws go in SO fast and easy with just a firm 'snap' into the ice - I'd only use a SNARG in a bind!

But Jeff and Alex Lowe were creating designs and gear that was changing the vertical ice game back then. Jeff even climbed here in the Adirondack's of NY here where I live! :)

Snags? better bring a hammer...wasted energy and weight. A rank beginner can place a modern 22cm anything (but I never carry anything that long these days) faster than you can pull a hammer let alone get a Snarg started. Getting it in? I can likely run out half a rope or more with that many swings!

"not quite as good as today's screws but pretty close "

ya, but.....no :)

Mike Lowe was the inventor, not Jeff or Alex.

Fun to see you are stoked to be climbing again, good on ya!

Dane wrote:Snags? better bring a hammer...wasted energy and weight. A rank beginner can place a modern 22cm anything (but I never carry anything that long these days) faster than you can pull a hammer let alone get a Snarg started. Getting it in? I can likely run out half a rope or more with that many swings! "not quite as good as today's screws but pretty close " ya, but.....no :) Mike Lowe was the inventor, not Jeff or Alex. Fun to see you are stoked to be climbing again, good on ya!

LOL how true! Mike Lowe? I didn't even know there was a MIKE LOWE! OMG! Let me guess? Another one of the Lowe brothers?

I guess they are now making a movie of Jeff's classic Eiger solo climb! I sold 2 mint Big Bird Hummingbirds I had to someone in Seattle on eBay that was seeking them and Snargs for a museum they were making for Jeff Lowe!

One other piece of advice: don't take everyone's advice. Go out, climb, and figure out what works for you. Climbing ice or rock is a personal experience and what works very well for one person may not work for others. Have fun!</quote

Hey Ben - we are nearly neighbors. I am from Schenectady, NY!

Dane wrote:First off? Welcome back Michael! I climbed many of the early Canadian 5s and 6 in the late' 70s and early '80s. First time I saw a decent screw go in @ the turn of this Century, I bitched at my partner to "at least put in a decent screw if you ar going to bother stop and place one!" It went in so fast and so easy I figured it had to be shite! So I have literally seen it all for water fall climbing..beginning to date. Get a pair of Nomics and some Grivel Helix ice screws. It will save you going through a lot of other stuff and ending up there anyway. Find the boot that fits you best..there is a bunch of good ones available from the usual suspects. Crampons? They have sadly gotten worse, not better.But most are decent...just not great. Hard to beat the old rigids. Rambo likely the only one up to par with a Footfang for climbing steep ice. But not it aint just steep ice. Petzl does a great job on crampons as well. Then there is the stretchy and super warm, super light weight clothing that is waterprrof and actually does breath. If you want a fun read of how I went from a pair of Chacals to a Nomic you might like this :) The CT blog is basically all the stuff I have learned or thought about in the last 40 years of ice climbing. I'd bet it isn't far off from what you have been thinking lately. coldthistle.blogspot.com/20…

PS I had two Simond Chacals! They rocked for their era! Loves them!

"I sold 2 mint Big Bird Hummingbirds I had to someone in Seattle on eBay that was seeking them and Snargs for a museum they were making for Jeff Lowe!"

That woud be Steve..

Jeff is making his own movie.

Chacal? I still have mine. Did a lot of climbing with them, Terros immediate prior and Lifetimes immediate after. Then back to the Chacal, then Simond again but the Piranha, until the Chalet-Moser stuff came out Still have my original pair, Chacal and Barracuda and a hand full of screws of every vintage. Plus at least a sampling of every tool and crampon I have climbed with before and since. Heaven only knows why :rolleyes:

LOL...I wish I had my Forrest Hammer still!