BeanFest Spring 2013

"done with the east side"? or did you mean you're down with the east side?

Dang it - Down with the East side LOL
I wear my bandana to the left, always the East Side... - Snoop

Food for thought:

The West side is a wiser option mainly because there is a FS entity over on the East side. Couple that with the high traffic of *paying* campers with RVs, etc headed in and out of the paid campground up the road is a bad mix for us. Bad publicity, in general.

What makes it bad publicity you ask? The last time we were over there for Beanfest, some genius decided to fire off a shotgun [or who knows what] around 10pm. Poor Angel had just come back from Afghanistan and had PTSD as a result. He was up the rest of the night bc of that stunt. It didn't go unnoticed by the FS people that live over there as I heard about it via an email from the FS reps at the Douglas office the next morning. We can't prevent stupidity but we can locate the even strategically to avoid publicizing said stupidity. I think the west side should be the location for the next few Beanfests for many reasons but that's just my opinion.

FS officials live and operate a business out of their home on the East side. I have come to know them as friends and they are very sweet people. They are very aware of most of what happens out there and, quite plainly, we [Beanfest] shouldn't be upsetting any apple carts. Bottom line is that since the West side is much less visible, it's a better spot for BF to take place. Not that we go running around setting fires to stuff but the aforementioned incident is s perfect example of what I mean. The FS visits the Beanfest location after every event now. They have been for the last couple of years to assess impact.

And the USBP... Border Patrol could care less what we're doing out there.

Another (but not the last/only) point about holding it on the west vs east is that the west side is much easier to clean. Everyone coming to Beanfest camps in one of about 6 easy to find campgrounds. They are easy to drive through and clean on the way out. The East side is a real hot spot with the FS bc of all the wild cat campsites that shouldn't exist. Last time I talked to the Douglas officials on the subject, they had a high contention for the amount of campfire rings that get erected over there after every Beanfest and grass that gets mashed down in random places off the roadways. They are constantly breaking up fire rings and trying to put up boards and poles to block off wild cat camping areas that shouldn't be used. Several people were just driving off and parking/camping in the grass at the last Beanfest over there. The reason the West side is better in this regard is bc of the abundance of close camping to the Isle of Ewe campground. Though they are the big items, trash and poop aren't the only things considered to be "messy".

As I said.. food for thought. I know how nice it is to change the location every year but an ounce of prudence could be a worthwhile investment at this juncture. If you've been listening at all, you're aware that the future of Beanfest isn't something set is stone. It's time we demonstrate that we are capable of conducting this event with [dare I say] responsibility.

Just a thought...
I heard BeanFest has been held on Mt. Lemmon and other S. AZ climbing areas in the past. If we are wearing out our welcome at Cochise, maybe BeanFest could be held elsewhere for a while or from time to time.

Daryl, I've never been able to figure out what you have against the east side. Whenever I suggest climbing over there you usually put up a fight. :-)

Ok, first as far as viability. Because of its close proximity to civilization, the west is overrun by recreators (mostly from Sierra Vista). Most of the Boy Scouting and other events are held on the west. Fire arms are allowed on the west as apposed to the east so anyone with PTSD should steer clear of the west side. I see border patrol and forest service all the time on the west but rarely on the east side. And as far as camping the east is all contained in one loop where as the west is spread over a 9 mile long road with many loops and spurs. Also, the only time we've had problems with the various agencies is when we've been on the west side. Never a problem on the east side. Because of it's proximity to Tombstone, Benson, Sierra Vista and Bisbee the west is a highly visible area as apposed to the more remote access to the east side. I think Daryl has lost his sense of direction. :-)

Red does have an appealing idea, though. I love exploring new areas so holding the fest some where else might be an idea too.

Shiloh, it's your picnic so it's your decision. Red has a valid point. Revisiting some old Beanfest traditions could be a fun option. Red, did you have any areas in mind that might lend well to a BF crowd (parking, games, etc)? I've been to many Mt Lemmon areas but not nearly all or enough to be able to provide suggestions.

Mike, you crack me up. I know you're getting old and all so here's a recent email to jog your memory:

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
From: Daryl

Feb 1 2013

To: michael, angel, Virginia, kimberly

Okay, so I just spoke with Mike and he and Amy are up for some light cragging tomorrow. I cc'd Mike and Angel. Does lebowski sound good to everyone? Virginia, that's where we went last week. Would you be ok going to the same place twice in a row?
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

That probably doesn't fit well into your argument but there it is, nonetheless. :o)

((PS: Lebowski Wall is on the East side))

I know. That's why I changed my argument from "all the time" to "most of the time". I went back and checked all my 1796 emails and that one plus one other were the only 2 where you were up to the east side. The other one was shake and bake. :-)

I like the idea of holding Beanfest on the east side of the Stronghold this time around...if it's going to be held in the Stronghold. I've never been aware of any problems encountered when it has been held on that side. In fact, last fall (west side) there seemed to be a considerable amount of drama with the Forest Service. I like how the Beanfest flip-flops between both sides. My vote is for the east side or choose a new location. I don't mind traveling somewhere else.

lol, you two crack me up.

TopRope Princess wrote:I've never been aware of any problems encountered when it has been held on that side.

Hence the reason for my post; perhaps you missed it. Have a look at my previous post regarding issues the FS has had with random camp sites, fire rings they have to break apart, and parking camping off on the grass following Beanfest on the east side. It's not just one or two and it's not something they forget about every year. It takes many man hours to break up, bury and re-scatter the fire rings. Staff and personnel are things they are very short on, along with patience. Also it takes a long time for those wild-cat camp sites to grow/fill back in.

TopRope Princess wrote: In fact, last fall (west side) there seemed to be a considerable amount of drama with the Forest Service. I like how the Beanfest flip-flops between both sides. My vote is for the east side or choose a new location. I don't mind traveling somewhere else.

That *drama* had nothing to do with the location. It had to do with FS logistics. I'm not sure why you think those events would not have occurred somewhere else.

Amy/Mike, are you all signing up to chaperone and correct folks that park and camp off in the grass and build random fire rings everywhere? Of course not.. no one will. Btw, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone that's done this. Not everyone at Beanfest is from here and several show up from places that don't have issues with fragile, slow-growth environments like the Stronghold. Some come from areas where the local crag parking area is a FS parking lot or paid campground.

Let's start thinking about what's best for the longevity of Beanfest and FS/climbing community relations.

Not sure if Shiloh is considering a voting system but this should have nothing to do with flip flopping, exploring new areas, fun climbing or favorite sides. This decision *should* be about where Beanfest will have the least impact. Personally, I think Red's idea is a good one. I think it would be fun to venture back to one of the more 'historic' Beanfest sites. Maybe Scott Mac or one of our Southern Az paladins of old could chime in..

Hey Shiloh, maybe you could introduce us all to your favorite awesome phoenix area.

Actually it is your fest so you get to pick. East side (less problems and rif raf), West side (lots of FS, border patrol and rif raf) or some place completely different. Don't let Daryl influence you. He had his turn already. :-) And don't let me influence you either. I've also had my turn. Good luck with the planning and let me know what I can do. A treasure hunt is really fun and a good excuse to be out climbing every weekend until beanfest.

I think an entirely new area would be a lot of fun!

Homestead!

Daryl Allan wrote: Red, did you have any areas in mind that might lend well to a BF crowd (parking, games, etc)? I've been to many Mt Lemmon areas but not nearly all or enough to be able to provide suggestions.

The best place I can think of on Lemmon is the Mt Bigelow area. A couple of the camp spots are really big and have other camping spots close by. It would also be a better location weather wise if Beanfest were to be held later in the spring as it is higher elevation. However, I'd imagine we would encounter the same permit issue as Cochise, but this area does see a lot of campers and we could easily spread out between camp spots that are not far apart.

I love it when a thread takes off -

I think from an management perspective the West Side is easier to control - if only
because the camping seems obvious and I did see a lot of rouge camping when we
had it on the East side the last time.
I personally like the East Side better, but thats my personal opinion.
If we were to have it on Lemmon, would you prefer a specific area such as Prison Camp?

I personally like the BeanFest at Cochise - and it gives us on opportunity to give back
to the area by cleaning.

I like Cochise too. If we have it there it should be on the east side. It's been held there off and on for over 30 years. The last several times we've had it on the west and there have been problems with other large groups. It is a BIG area for groups such as the Boy Scouts. And the last time because of the Scout group we had drama with the FS. I think that is why it is good to move it around and from side to side.

The east is only one loop for camping and I really don't see a problem with rogue camping. I think the difference is when we do it on the west side people are spread from Sheepshead to Whale dome so the camp areas outside of the Isle of Ewe (if that spot happens to be available for us) never get inspected or blamed on beanfest. If we do it on the east side I would be willing to go around and make sure everyone cleans their site when done. I camp on the east all the time so I know every nook and cranny there. That could be my donation. :-)

Mike Diesen wrote:I like Cochise too. If we have it there it should be on the east side. It's been held there off and on for over 30 years. The last several times we've had it on the west and there have been problems with other large groups. It is a BIG area for groups such as the Boy Scouts. And the last time because of the Scout group we had drama with the FS. I think that is why it is good to move it around and from side to side. The east is only one loop for camping and I really don't see a problem with rogue camping. I think the difference is when we do it on the west side people are spread from Sheepshead to Whale dome so the camp areas outside of the Isle of Ewe (if that spot happens to be available for us) never get inspected or blamed on beanfest. If we do it on the east side I would be willing to go around and make sure everyone cleans their site when done. I camp on the east all the time so I know every nook and cranny there. That could be my donation. :-)

What part of "there would have been FS drama regardless of which side was chosen for the last Beanfest" do you not understand? Daryl clearly has experience with the USFS bureaucracy. The scout group was not the cause of the drama, the size of the planned event requiring a permit was. Just because YOU don't see an issue with rogue camping doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Your opinion matters not to the forest service, who clearly do mind, do see a problem, and whose opinion actually matters. It isn't your beanfest. Just say you'd prefer the east side and stop spraying nonsense that might get Beanfest shut down.

Ok so I was able to remove my head from my posterior long enough to make a final decision
and we have decided to make the official date for the BeanFest (drum roll please)

April 19th - 21st

I do understand that this may interfere with peoples plans to attend the PRG event
however, in accommodation for a special friend - we have chosen this date.

We appreciate the support of EVERYONE over the years and hope that you will
be able to join us as we kick off Beanfest 2013!

Please PM me if you would like to sponsor - I will be working on contacting
local entities to gather goods and supplies. There will be a raffle and I will
be supplying swag from ClimbPHX as well as from our sponsors. Did I mention
CLimbPHX will be supplying a keg from our very own local brewery - DesertEagle
Brewery? And of course, the honorary bottle of Tequila to go with the bean pot.

We will be holding the BeanFest on the East Side this year, and YES we will be very sensitive this year about rouge camping AND the impact that comes with trodding down the grasses and building makeshift fire circles, shooting guns off in the middle of the night, ect.

I FULLY understand the impact that we have on the local populace engaging in an event of this nature and will do my utmost to use the same care that I do with my local cleanup and steward activities here in Phoenix.

The guy in charge makes the decision and thus becomes "Beanmaster". Nice going Beanmaster.

As unpopular as I may become :)

Hey Alex, that was totally uncalled for. Daryl is a good friend and climbing partner of mine. We live in the same town together and if I don't agree with him I'll tell him. Maybe even drive to his house and knock some sense in him (or let him knock some sense in me). :-) And he knows that I will because he knows me personally.

As for the FS drama, I was actually there when it happened and yes it was about the BS group. The BS told the FS what Bridgette was doing and they came over and talked to her.

I'm not trying to make enemies Just get a little hot when someone attacks me without knowing the fact.