How to you tie your cordelette?

For those of you who use a cordelette, and let's not turn this into a 'just use the rope vs cordalette debate', how do you tie it?

Flemish/figure 8 bend
Flat overhand
Double Fishermans/Triple fishermans for thin/slippery chord

I know some of the advantages/disadvantages would be being able to tie & untie the knot but I usually don't untie mine.

If anyone can give some reason for one vs the other that would be great, thanks.

John Marsella wrote:Use the rope or yer gonna die

Damn, thought that might happen...

I use a double fishermans on my 6mm cord.

A overhand knot works great just dress it well and have tails about 8 inches long. This way it is easily untied if you need the cord to ascend a line, tie around tree, tandem rappel when descending with a bag or hurt partner. If you rap with this knot there is no reason that you shouldn't tie a cord this way.

I prefer stiffer cord for my cordelette. It's tied permanently with a double fishermen's.

If you don't want to untie it, triple fisherman's. It'll get relatively welded after a few uses

I keep mine racked loose and if I need to tie it shorter I use a flat overhand with a second one as a backup.

Why limit yourself with a perma-tied cordelette? If you need the extension to set a master point over a lip the flexibility of an easy-to-untie knot (flat overhand) far outweighs the pros of the triple fisherman's. (and I actually can't think of any pros) ((Except MAYBE real slippery cord))

FLAT OVERHAND

Double strand configuration: If you had a perma-tied cordelette

Single strand configuration: Notice the extension of the master point. ALSO: the reduced V-Angle

I have a triple fisherman's on my 7mm cord

whittlesticks wrote:A overhand knot works great just dress it well and have tails about 8 inches long. This way it is easily untied if you need the cord to ascend a line, tie around tree, tandem rappel when descending with a bag or hurt partner. If you rap with this knot there is no reason that you shouldn't tie a cord this way.

That's definitely my choice for rapping so I definitely agree with you there, but I do kinda hate wasting so much tail, but oh well.

Dylan Weldin wrote:If you don't want to untie it, triple fisherman's. It'll get relatively welded after a few uses I keep mine racked loose and if I need to tie it shorter I use a flat overhand with a second one as a backup or 18" tail. Why limit yourself with a perma-tied cordelette? If you need the extension to set a master point over a lip the flexibility of an easy-to-untie knot (flat overhand) far outweighs the pros of the triple fisherman's. (and I actually can't think of any pros) ((Except MAYBE real slippery cord)) FLAT OVERHAND

I definitely like you're second picture, which is definitely a huge advantage, and it will definitely get welded.

The only thing im surprised about is no one has stated a flemish/figure 8 bend, I guess that's sort of middle of the road.

I was just seeing if there was any huge reasons other than what I listed, I tended to use fishermans until my trad mentor noticed and told me I could use an overhand with tail as well and I was curious what the consensus was, because both definitely have their place.

double fisherman's on 7mm cord. but considering switching to 6mm in the future for less bulk on the harness

I use two over hands with a bit of tail. The danger of the overhand is that it can roll, but the second one keeps the first one from rolling.

I like the 2 overhand system because its easy to untie. I used to use a double fishermans, and I never untied my cordelettes but when I started untieing them, I started finding them a lot more useful.

whittlesticks wrote:A overhand knot works great just dress it well and have tails about 8 inches long. If you rap with this knot there is no reason that you shouldn't tie a cord this way.

The forces seen in rappelling aren't anywhere near the forces a cordellete might see during a lead fall onto it. That was always my reasoning for using an overhand for rappelling but not for any lead fall cord. Correct me if I'm wrong.

My cordelette is about 60 meters long and I usually tie it with clove hitches.

EDK

David Appelhans wrote: The forces seen in rappelling aren't anywhere near the forces a cordellete might see during a lead fall onto it.

+ 1

Why tie it at all? Ok someone is going to tell me its not a cordelette if its not tied.

I rack it same as if it was tied. If I need to use it as an anchor, I tie a knot, but this not is where I need it. If I need to use it to ascend or some other non-typical use, then no knot to untie.

An AMGA guide showed me this trick.

Truck13

At the belay you tie a knot to make the masterpoint. Why not use the same not to make the masterpoint and close the cordelette?

To be fair, the guide that taught me this firmly believed in using the rope to make anchors and primarily used his cordelette for other things. Maybe it depends why you carry a cordelette.

Truck13

Truck13 are you referring to having the cord tethered (ends tied together via double/triple fishermans for most) or un-tethered (cordellette with ends untied)?

If I know ill be at an area where my anchor placements will be far apart having the cord untethered is convienent; if say at the Gunks for example, I`ll have my cord tethered (ends tied together) because most of my anchor placements will be close together.

Is this what you were referring to? Just another way to say it?

Yes, untethered as you said it.

Truck13

We are on the same page. Pick what works for you. Try it, maybe you'll like it. If not nothing lost.

Truck13

Jake, picture 2 pieces of gear in a horizontal crack 2ft apart (an example of untethered use) and 1 piece about 6-7ft away and up higher. The average tethered (tied) cord couldn't accommodate all the pieces BUT if you untether the cord you can tie a figure 8 on a bight in one end, attach to the far anchors biner then a clove or another 8 in the other end and clip that to the other (far left or right or farthest up or down in the order of anchors) extreme THEN just run the middle of the cord through the middle anchors biner, pull down as usual to build a master point and bring the system together.

Its useful to be able to use cord tethered and untethered for sure. Same redudancy and mster point, just different ways to construct with cord.

Jake Jones

Sorry to throw you off. If the pieces are close, I do tie the ends into the masterpoint knot, resulting in two strands to each point. If they points are far apart I do it as The Stoned Master described.

"It still boils down to knowing a method, sticking with it, and becoming proficient at it so you don't spend unnecessary time dicking around at belays." YES!!!!!!!

Everyone needs to have their go to method. Being comfortable with alternative methods is important for unusual events.

Truck13

Jake Jones wrote:Agreed. At the request of the OP, I won't diverge into reasons that "just using the rope" is a better idea. There are good reasons sometimes to use a cord. If you're not swapping leads, if you have more than one follower, etc. Situation dictates.

-I have 22ft cordelettes, and usually had them closed with triple fishermans
-I don't particularly like the edk for this, wanted to see if anyone used a flemish/fig8 bend
-Me and my partners never swap leads, we normally agree that 1 person will lead the climb and then once we're off we'll swap ends for the next climb, and we do occasionally do 3 person parties
Being at the gunks for all my trad to date, belay station placements are normally extremely close so Ive always had my ends terminated.

I am interested in using it with 2 figure 8s and then through the middle 1 or 2 gear pieces and make a master point from that, you would definitely have more to work with plus your placements could be farther apart, so not closing the loop would be advantageous.