how do you nicely tell someone they are belaying wrong

Guy Keesee wrote: So please tell me ..... what good are those things for???? A serious question.

Sport climbing. Your buddy is working a route and taking at a lot trying to figure out the moves. A lot easier to hold someone with the gri gri locked up than to sit there with an ATC pinching the rope for a couple of minutes. So theres one answer.

Guy Keesee wrote:I was at Indian Cove the other day and I notice lots of belayers sitting about 15 or 20 feet back from the base of climbs.... might be OK with all bolts protection. But a distaster in the wating when the gear is TRAD.

Even with bolts the belayer still gets whipped into the wall and could lose control of the belay device.... And when you get smacked into the wall and let go the grigri will have a chance of catching while the ATC won't. So there is another instance where a grigri is useful, although obviously not belaying like a gumbie from the start would be a better option.

And when you get smacked into the wall and let go the grigri will have a chance of catching while the ATC won't

Eric... Thats why I never let go with brake hand, even when running down hill, or smacked and dragged across JT stone riding on my four knuckles.... 40 years of tried and true experience.

But if one was young and didn't have deeply ingrained habbits I could see using one.... train yourself to just let go with both hands!!!!

.... but that means you let go with brake hand.

Now I am confused.

And another way to let somebody know they are unsafe.....

If they have hot GF.... go talk to her... tell her you want to take her away from this unsafe dude she is with.... and total bliss can be had, but only if you show her the ropes.

Set their car on fire, Rob. They can't see it from Kelly's Rock.

your a bad man ethan

Guy Keesee wrote:And when you get smacked into the wall and let go the grigri will have a chance of catching while the ATC won't Eric... Thats why I never let go with brake hand, even when running down hill, or smacked and dragged across JT stone riding on my four knuckles.... 40 years of tried and true experience. But if one was young and didn't have deeply ingrained habbits I could see using one.... train yourself to just let go with both hands!!!! .... but that means you let go with brake hand. Now I am confused. And another way to let somebody know they are unsafe..... If they have hot GF.... go talk to her... tell her you want to take her away from this unsafe dude she is with.... and total bliss can be had, but only if you show her the ropes.

Uhhh how do you keep a hold of the brake hand when you are knocked unconcious from hitting the wall with your head? Or a rock falling on your head?? Those are some SKILLZ! Pretty unlikely but just pointing out the obvious...

Guy Keesee wrote:And when you get smacked into the wall and let go the grigri will have a chance of catching while the ATC won't Eric... Thats why I never let go with brake hand, even when running down hill, or smacked and dragged across JT stone riding on my four knuckles.... 40 years of tried and true experience. But if one was young and didn't have deeply ingrained habbits I could see using one.... train yourself to just let go with both hands!!!! .... but that means you let go with brake hand. Now I am confused. And another way to let somebody know they are unsafe..... If they have hot GF.... go talk to her... tell her you want to take her away from this unsafe dude she is with.... and total bliss can be had, but only if you show her the ropes.

Grew up climbing without an GriGri or autolocker... these days I pretty much demand my partner use an autolock. Self preservation in a true life and death situation is unavoidable unless you have time to think about it which usually one doesn't. It is in one's nature to strive to preserve their own life over one others' life. If taking your hand off the brake means saving your life, you will, and if you keep your hand on and then die well what good was the ATC anyway, your dead and you leader is still SOL on the wall with no belay.

So in general don't be an idiot, just use an autolocker. Yes there certain one offs where using a atc or some tube makes sense... but they are few, very few, IMO. Guy - your record is commendable but if yourself unconscious and bloodied on the belay end of the rope would you still be able to sing your tune? on a multi pitch the auto could save your life let alone your leader.

Oh yeah for the OP - Tell them to harden the fu*k up and belay right!