Omega Pacific Link Cams

lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate....

I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience.

I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined.

Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme)

As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day.

I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol

Dow Williams wrote:lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's

I am assuming you are making a jab at the South for being full of ignorant rednecks. You might want to look in the mirror.

Dow Williams wrote:lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's

This may shock you, but most people probably don't update their tick lists religiously so that they can impress badasses like you.

Dow Williams wrote:As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol

I'll be passing through San Jorge in two weeks on my way to Red Rock. Message me if you want me to stop by your place. I'll tell you to your face that you're a quasi-literate tool whose braggadocio and desperate attempts at badassery are only made more hilarious by the fact that you're a 48 year old man who uses "lol" like a 13 year old girl. I can be even more of a dick in person.

Hugs and Kisses,
Austin

trigger wires go poofy ... thats why BD sells trigger wire kits .... ive had the fun of using them a few times ... the shop in squamish usually has a whole rack of cams of various types under repair for triggers ...

Haven't ya'll ever heard the term, "respect your elders." Check out summitpost for a some beta on routes in the Canadian Rockies, Nevada, and Utah. Dow's put in more time/effort than many of us will do in our climbing careers.

Dow's got quite a bit of experience under his belt, had a problem w/ his gear, and wanted a answer. Seems pretty simple to me. The omega link cams have had particular problems with their trigger/wire systems, significantly on the 1st generation cams, but since have been much improved.

Austin, I live 10 minutes from Red Rocks, you can find me in the Canyons 3-4 x/week, usually "shirtless." Better assemble your crew!

Cheers dow!

And yes, I stole this photo from the nevada forum, just couldn't resist.

Assemble your crew.

Dow Williams wrote:lol, a sampling from Georgia, Texas and a kid with a tic list of 5.6's....so typical of a MP gear thread and why I never participate.... I appreciate Lane getting to me, as a result of this thread. I received the cam yesterday but am still laying down the links...due to what I examined reading other reviews as well as my experience. I never said it was a structural break....for the record, Lane is as perplexed as I about what caused both triggers to fry at the same time. I was looking for answers more than a fixed cam. I was leading two folks. One needed lowered on a crux pitch, both were brought up into one device simultaneously. The lowered rope ran across the the gear on the none lowering rope. It was fully weighted of course, at an overhang. A climbing rope busting trigger wires via friction is something I had never seen nor expected, yet had to lower many folks over the years for one reason or another. Although I cannot claim that BD, Metolius or Trango might not react the same way...both Lane and I don't believe friction from nylon, even against rock, should bust trigger wires. That being said, trigger wires do get frail from packing and re-packing your rack, bending and re-bending. This could be a coincidence, both popping. My issue is that I originally started using the links since their inception for use on big routes in the Bugaboos...where we are almost always up against time, particulary measured against daylight and weather (talking about routes like Cooper-Kor). I prefer to go as light as possible, sans bivy gear or stove. I am not going to carry trigger wire kits nor can I afford to stop and mess with broken trigger wires. I was hoping for a more definitive explanation, i.e. that the wires were coincidentally both at their breaking point when the weighted rope rubbed up against them. Sounds like that could not be determined. Anyone want our links, you are welcome to contact me through MP. I removed all negative reviews as they all related to OP's responsiveness and Lane obviously fixed that. I stand by my comments about REI. I just find that weird, but am not much of a fan, so not bothered by it much. (suppose to be member owned...yeah, sure, naivety reigns supreme) As for the chest thumping and name calling....I just once, just once wish one of you tough guy MP keyboard addicts carried the same attitude when I met you in the field....I am the same ass hole on line that I am in person, no different. It would be so entertaining if one of these cats could follow through with his fake bravado when meeting me in person...Rob, Killis....please introduce me to one some day. I got what I needed...the thread is now yours....you hard core MFers....lol

Quoted for posterity.

Mistaking where one currently lives as an indicator of ones intellectual or climbing ability is your folly, not mine. Mistaking intellectual criticism and debate online as some "physical challenge" or "masculine bravado" is, again, your mistake, not mine.

Dow's climbing speaks for itself, regardless of what anyone thinks about this thread. besides, this thread doesn't exist in a vacuum, historically there has been a lot of problems with link cams.

Ray Pinpillage wrote:Dow's climbing speaks for itself

That may be the case; but it only speaks for itself when the issue being discussed is climbing ability and\or experience. When the issue being discussed is the ability to cogently and intelligently provide information or make an argument, climbing ability doesn't matter. When the issue being discussed is

mattm wrote: Mistaking where one currently lives as an indicator of ones intellectual or climbing ability is your folly, not mine. Mistaking intellectual criticism and debate online as some "physical challenge" or "masculine bravado" is, again, your mistake, not mine.

then once again, climbing ability doesn't matter. I respect people for their climbing ability and experience, but that excuses neither the vague, ambiguous posts Dow was making nor his risible attempt at geographic denigration. If someone is a dick (remember - Dow told me I have no business being on this thread because I have several 5.6s on my tick list) then I'll return the favor. I don't give a rat's ass what sort of FAs he has after his name or how many 13s he's climbed - none of that gives him the right to be an asshole.

You guys should show a little more respect for Mr. Williams. After all, he's a full-time climber, as he points out every second or third sentence. And we all know how rare that is in this sport.

Also, he makes big contributions to climbing. Mostly by going through guidebooks and climbing trade routes and spraying about them on Summit Post, while at the same time complaining constantly that there aren't any real climbers on that site (which I've heard he actually bought)--but never posting route beta on MP because, well, I guess a bunch of real climbers have beat him to it.

And he's also been in the climbing mags. For falling something like 200 feet on a 5.8 when he was off-route and run-out.

Not to mention the fact that he climbs in Utah AND Canada! Who among us can say the same?

So, let's show him the respect he deserves.

I have to side with Austin here for the first time ever, that was a total dickhead comment about the 5.6 tic list, especially since I still have about 100 more classic 5.6s I want to do on top of the 100 I have ticked at the Gunks. The original post didnt make a ton of sense either, especially with no pics.

The funny thing here is a large percentage of Gunks n00bs carry these link cams and love to spray about how great they are all day at the crag. I'd rather whip on some old Smiley cams I bought from China 17 years ago.

Nice thread Dow!

I guess the happy, feely, "let's all stand around in a circle and tell each other just how awesome we are" folks at SP that swallow your bullshit on a daily basis don't post much on MP.

I completely agree that Dow's "contributions" on that other site are a bunch of crap and this thread is just more mellow dramatic whining from the queen of the piss and moan crowd over at SP. I realize you've built yourself a hardman, know it all persona over there but you've failed to understand that no one else gives a rat's scrawny ass how big of a bad ass you've convinced yourself you are.

You're screaming that the sky is falling and it turns out you broke a trigger wire and OP fixed it for free. To say thank you, you've decided to pretend like they failed to follow up with you and went ahead and got a 3 page thread of drama going by with holding the information that the only thing that broke on your cam was a TRIGGER WIRE!

Not a fan of Link Cams or REI but I think the response you got from both was perfectly reasonable. Instead of trying to trash a companies name because your feelings got hurt, how's about you just check your damn voice mail?

At this point I'd think a man of your stature and importance in the climbing world should realize that it's time to publicly apologize to both OP and REI for acting like an 8 year old hysterical school girl.

I can't believe I wasted my time reading this thread. It should be removed on account of the fact that it falsely hints towards gross negligence on the part of Omega Pacific, and you need to read a page and a half of posts to discover this real truth. Most people probably aren't going to stick around long enough to learn that this was all about a trigger wire.

Also, Dow, why do you feel it was necessary to say, "I am not Mormon, nor Canadian"? Would being either of those diminish the validity of your argument?

Really?!!! All this for broken trigger wires????? Iv been on routes where BD wires break and never got butt hurt about it.....also a little rediculous that omega was the one that explained what happened, and the OP was somehow ignorant to the people wanting clarification on what happened.
I was hoping for some crazy story about the cam failing.....Bummer.

Anywho, Link cams suck(IMO) Iv seen more "exploded" cams stuck than any other brand. But still if your going to bother posting about things, you might as well say what happened. Silly internet people.

I was going to say something, but then I realized I live in Arkansas for most of the year and Kansas for the rest so I don't know anything.

I better beef up on my whining if I ever want to be as badass as Dow...pro tip #1: not talking about a minor thing like a broken trigger wire during a vague rant about gear failure helps get more attention. beware though, if the entity you're criticizing gets a chance to oust you in public, you get laughed at by southern hick 5.6'ers like me. and everyone else.

I feel like this thread was a good use of the last 10 minutes of my life, though. Good to know OP has good customer service :)

Geez loueez papa'cheeze! That was waaay entertaining.

erik kapec wrote:Anywho, Link cams suck(IMO) Iv seen more "exploded" cams stuck than any other brand.

That's because they're nothing like any other brand of cam and what's unique about them brings a whole different set of advantages and disadvantages that's on you to be cognizant of if you choose to leave the ground with them.

But otherwise you're right, a dramafest of epic insignificance.

junk, pure junk

I wanted to share my story of Link Cam failure. I was belaying my partner at the start of a sport route which began on a ledge up 25-30 feet. Due to the dangerous position and the height of the first bolt, my partner placed one of the larger link cams in a crack with questionable rock. He climbed a move or two, then a hand or foot hold broke, causing him to fall. The Link Cam failed to arrest his fall, and he ended up falling past the ledge I was belaying from. Upon inspection of the cam, the lobes had become inverted. The rock blew out where it had been placed. I'm assuming the cam failure was due to dynamic forces generated by the failure of the rock, and that if the rock had not failed the cams would not have inverted. Even so, I feel that the cam lobes should not have become inverted and I will never buy a Link Cam, and place partner's LC's with hesitation, if at all!

John Wilder wrote: 1) Get a stick clip in the future- that high first bolt was probably due to bad rock down low. 2) Its more likely that your friend placed the cam incorrectly. A tipped out link cam is just as likely to umbrella as any other cam. In fact its highly unlikely that the cam lobes inverted from a good placement... 3) Any gear has its limitations- learning to understand those limitations is a key part of the process of using any piece of equipment. Preferably learn the major ones BEFORE you use it- the Link Cam is VERY specialized and NOT for amateur trad climbers.

1. Yes, a stick clip would have worked great. It was more because the leader was looking at a 25+' groundfall from the very start than how high the first bolt was from the ledge that he wanted some pro. And the rock was fine on the face next to the crack. This is just an example of the route developer not safely equipping the route - there should have been anchors on the ledge IMO - we set a gear anchor which saved us both when the near FF2 fall occurred.
2. I saw the placement and it was not tipped out. Shit rock yes. Tipped out no. Shit placement yes due to shit rock
3. Amateur trad climbers lol!!

The cams could not have inverted had the rock not blown out. Hate to say it but a Camalot would not have failed in this manner - it wouldn't have prevented the gnarly fall but the lobes would not have inverted.