The 2012-13 Colorado Ice Conditions Thread

Justin Deal wrote:Heard the Des and Spiral are in good shape but steeper than normal as of yesterday. I want to go up to Vail Sunday and drop a TR on Spiral but I have only led 2+ and dont feel ready for"steeper than normal" 4-. I heard about a chimney that leads up to the top. Any info on how I can get up there without leading?

Show up about 10am and there will already be a TR or 4 on it :) There is a walk/bushwack around climber right but the first option is more pleasant.

That's climber's right of Spiral. Climber's right of the Dez is the Fang,hardly a scramble/bushwhack. :)
The chimney you've heard about is climber's left of the Dez near a prow of rock IIRC and often has a crappy line fixed in it.
Best option is to practice and put in miles until you can lead it rather than tying up the line with a TR. Let those who can, lead it. You'll appreciate it when you're in those shoes. Everywhere is not your ice park.

+1,000
Every third person should re-lead the climbs in Vail. There isn't enough ice to tie it up all day on TR. Practice elsewhere until you can lead the climbs. Thanks for the guidance Kevin...

Eli Helmuth wrote: Just about anytime there is snow on the north face that you are standing-on, there is high avalanche potential as the entire slope is unsupported and and perfect avalanche terrain. Snowpack makes little difference with this perfect avalanche terrain, especially with the Diamond as a terrain trap (pack a parachute). As Beagle said, just take a look up there and if your route above the rock/ice pitches involves snow travel, avi potential is high. Late spring/summer (May/June) is about the only time it will bond for a while, if we get the snow.

Thanks guys. I appreciate it.

bridalveil is in nice right now.

Kevin Craig wrote:Best option is to practice and put in miles until you can lead it rather than tying up the line with a TR.

I totally understand your frustration with people beating the piss out of routes on TR, but...to play devil's advocate, how do you expect people to "practice and put in miles" without doing so on TR? Drive all the way to Ouray?

As Kevin said if you can lead it you will appreciate it......

I have logged hundreds of hours on the sharp end and really because of the crowds and the destruction of the ice in Colorado I just don't go out and climb ice here anymore.

Having been in Vail lots and lots of times it just amazed me actually baffled me to wonder first, why is there snow falling off The Fang then moments later a rope being lowered from above as a TR was set up.

Jewel Falls in RMNP watching a guy shoulder a rope and start to walk around........

I couldn't fathom where he was going till I realized he was walking around to set up a TR

Ice climbing in Colorado is just not what it used to be......

Maybe you'll all think hey great one less ice climber out there making a crowd, but what people are doing to ice and climbs in Colorado, I wouldn't call them ice climbers I'd call them gym climbers outdoors trying to be ice climbers......

Yeah, good riddance Jim! One less lead climber hogging all those great TRs in the F'Range. I mean those leaders take forever on a climb, when you can just scramble around to set the TR. So lame.

Kidding aside. I have noticed a huge change in the ice community in the short time I have climbed here in CO.

I guess in the 80s when you moved to CO, you bought skis. Now you buy ice tools. A special thanks to all the top ropers for all those ropes tossed with no call down on my head while leading. I'm with Jim, the bs is getting annoying, but I won't stop climbing.

Not to get terribly off tangent, but it's a tough call on the whole TR / Leading ice conversation. There is a massive influx of ice climbers on the front range, and quite a bit of them are at the far end beginners, lacking in the basic ethic and skill sets. I'm not sure if it's crossing over from a sport climbing ethos, but as Tits said their is quite a bit of BS now. This obviously includes throwing ropes down on leaders, poor "ice management" aka dangerous behavior and a general sh*tty attitude by people that want to sleep in and still TR everything. Toss in "guides" that bring groups of 8-12 up to extremely limited resources (i.e. Hidden falls..really?) and it's a real sh*tshow. It just seems that across the board there is a real sense of ice entitlement, just to give it a name.

I'm not a great leader by any means so I do my far share of TRing, so my opinion isn't to call anyone out. I guess I'm lucky that the people I've climbed with in general had that wake up early and earn your climb mentality.

Of course this is just the interweb, but hopefully some of the the people leading beginners out to learn the ice game can pass down some of the more old school ethics. I think it's too late to stop the hoards and it's not up to us to say who can climb what; however it's not too late to show new climbers a better way to go about it.

IMHO...

Might be time to move the annual ethics discussion to another thread?

Was out at Overflow on Sunday (1/6). Plenty of ice, actively forming on the far left, getting old in the middle and right sides. The trail is boot-packed the whole way.

The big slabby flows way up on the slope of Thatchtop look good, but if you head up there DON'T follow the tracks I left - I went the wrong way and ended up thrashing up a big snow gully instead of finding the ice. You'll want to go farther left than my tracks in order to reach the ice.

I want to add that the shift to more newbies climbing ice is comparable to the new cohort of less-skilled backcountry skiers out there currently. They are a danger to everyone. They have little idea what they don't know, and are likely to cause issues with themselves, the people in their group and the people around them. In this way, we should thank our lucky stars very few of them are trying to lead ice, as more of our days would probably be taken up by evacuating injured climbers.

+1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette.

Cale Hoopes wrote:+1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette.

Ethics and Etiquette are what ice climbers talk about when there are no ice conditions to report.

+2

Cale Hoopes wrote:+1 to getting this thread back to conditions and away from ethics & etiquette.

Thought I would upload a photo from the Firehouse Area from Saturday. Firehouse Pillar is not in yet. Lowe Gravity has not touched down but Eastern Xpansion has and the two can be connected across the bolted traverse. '2nd Leftmost' is covered with smear ice to the bottom 6'. East of West was fully in and West of East was plastic on top. We did not visit Staircase or RD amphitheater but the reports were that they were a zoo, and very thin for this time of year.

We climbed Martha yesterday (January 9th 2013). No ice on p4 and thin is on the p5 crux. A very fun outing either way. The snow was very soft and spring like. Due to the warm temps it felt like we were climbing in May.

Scott McMahon wrote:Not to get terribly off tangent, but it's a tough call on the whole TR / Leading ice conversation. There is a massive influx of ice climbers on the front range, and quite a bit of them are at the far end beginners, lacking in the basic ethic and skill sets. I'm not sure if it's crossing over from a sport climbing ethos, but as Tits said their is quite a bit of BS now. This obviously includes throwing ropes down on leaders, poor "ice management" aka dangerous behavior and a general sh*tty attitude by people that want to sleep in and still TR everything. Toss in "guides" that bring groups of 8-12 up to extremely limited resources (i.e. Hidden falls..really?) and it's a real sh*tshow. It just seems that across the board there is a real sense of ice entitlement, just to give it a name. I'm not a great leader by any means so I do my far share of TRing, so my opinion isn't to call anyone out. I guess I'm lucky that the people I've climbed with in general had that wake up early and earn your climb mentality. Of course this is just the interweb, but hopefully some of the the people leading beginners out to learn the ice game can pass down some of the more old school ethics. I think it's too late to stop the hoards and it's not up to us to say who can climb what; however it's not too late to show new climbers a better way to go about it. IMHO...

I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two.

Justin Deal wrote: I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two.

I wasn't even responding to your post, hence not quoting it. Honestly I didn't even see it.

My post wasn't directed at nor initiated by your post; in fact I say that I'm not a great leader, so I'm on your side. It was just an observation about the general shennagagins at the ice crags.

Justin Deal wrote: I was just asking about the descent/climb to get up there without leading. I do lead. Ice and trad. Trad for three years and this is my first year to lead ice. I've been climbing ice for three years and the people who taught me have been doing it almost ten. I get up at 430 in the morning and get to my climb by 8 usually, with my big boy pants on and a full set of good manners and very legit anchor building skills. I just don't want to bite off more than I can chew on lead but I do want to climb whatever I can. I would never rappel down on someone or drop a rop or ice on someone from the top of a climb(unless I'm climbing and ice comes down naturally). I'm sure all you MTN Project die hard forum hardasses who somehow have tons of time to dick around on online forums instead of climb all started out leading WI 4 so you never had this problem. Maybe one of you should start a how to be a badass forum so I can waste time reading it instead of climbing and learn myself a thing or two.

Once again let's stay on topic of an "Ice conditions Thread."

Skied to below Grace Falls in RMNP this weekend and the ice looked super solid. Plenty of mixed potential in the area as well. I wouldn't get on the North Face though if you paid me.

Will Butler wrote: Once again let's stay on topic of an "Ice conditions Thread." Skied to below Grace Falls in RMNP this weekend and the ice looked super solid. Plenty of mixed potential in the area as well. I wouldn't get on the North Face though if you paid me.

Will, A: thanks for getting us back on topic. B: Why would you not want to get on the North Face? Windloaded etc, or personal aversion? C: You skied in, did you find that worthwhile with the amount of snow present? I skied in last week on the east side of the park and was very disappointed I lugged in my relatively heavy skis/boots, carried my ice boots, because there was so little snow I could have boot packed as quickly. Love to ski approach if its worthwhile.