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Help Climbers Attacked in Peru

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Cattle rustlers/thieves?? Interesting to hear another side of the story . What a misunderstanding. Language barriers are never good in sketchy areas, especially on other folks land.

Patrick Vernon · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 965

It looks like cattle rustler then. They were probably thought to be cattle rustlers when the villagers first saw them and any attempts at conversation were made I am assuming.

(the coments below the article are very revealing and reflect that) and makes no sense but it is a bit of information not mentioned before that could explain something.

Here is an interesting response to the article:

"Yo y mis amistades, turistas de Estados Unidos, fuimos agredidos cuando tomamos un bus de Cusco a Puno. Habia una huelga de campesinos los que tiraron rocas al bus donde ibamos e incendiaron el puente por donde debiamos cruzar. En el bus yo era el unico Peruano. Que pena que esto no se sancione."

My friends and I, tourists from the US, were assaulted when we took a bus from Cusco (sameish region?) to Puno. There was a group of villagers who threw rocks at the bus we were in and burned the bridge we were going to cross. I was the only Peruvian on the bus. What a shame this hasn't been dealt with.

-Patrick

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

So, someone from the village demanded to see their papers. They thought it was a scam to steal their passports, etc., and when they refused the locals assumed they were cattle rustlers out to grab some livestock. Sounds like a well organized neighborhood watch program went into action at that point. Hiring a local guide/translator and talking to the locals (and maybe offering to pay the landowner before setting up camp on his land) might have saved them some grief.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Sounds like a bit of the old Wild Wild West going on in that area. Plan accordingly...

Edit to add: whenever I travel abroad, I keep copies of my IDs hidden, or my traveling partner and I each carry copies of each others IDs in case our originals are lost, or stolen, and the numbers to the US Embassy, or consulate.

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41

With rampant crime and no dependable police force in the area, it would make sense for the locals to organize like that. Stealing somebody's livestock in that part of the world can mess up that person's life pretty badly. Cattle rustlers in the original Wild West didn't get treated too gently, either.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Not sure if these tourists were taking pictures in the area they were attacked, but I can see folks getting paranoid if strangers are taking pics of their people, and their livestock on their land. I know many of us would be angry, or suspicious if someone, or people who didn't identify themselves drove by our house, and took pics of our kids, and animals. Just sayin' Tourists can be a little too trigger happy with their fancy cameras at times. Just be careful, and put yourselves in other folks shoes if you tend to be a snapaholic.

Patrick Vernon · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 965

Interesting that you mention that GiGi,

Here is directly from their blog in Colombia:
facebook.com/photo.php?fbid…

They have photos of police stations and border crossings too in Colombia. I am surprised they didn't get attacked sooner. Naive? Very. Deserving of what happened? Not at all.

-Patrick

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Yikes! One might take pics of drug fields, deals, and corrupt police action inadvertently in some of those regions if they're not careful. Hope they get paid well for pics like that.
; /

Medic741 · · Des Moines, IA (WTF) · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 265

Holy crap. Uh yeah. I'm sorry but you do not do that. Especially in those countries. I really would like to hear the village's account of what happened/ why.

Quiet abductions much much more common than this lynching scenario. More as it has been discussed how did they piss this village off so much?. Wow.

It has been brought up if you are sleeping on someone's campo you go up to the door, offer a few bucks, smile and ask if they would like to join you for dinner. +10000 for this advice. Something happened and they are not telling the whole story or are too naive to know what they did wrong.

Brad Boyle · · Tucson, AZ · Joined May 2010 · Points: 0

I really want to understand this story. I have traveled for over 40 years all over Latin America and I love it. Especially in my own vehicle, which I love best of all. Incidents like this are very, very rare. The closest one I can think of is the mobbing of those tourists in Guatemala who were mistaken for "baby snatchers" (thanks Gri Gri for the link).

pat vernon, Gri Gri, sorry, but I don't buy your theory about taking pictures. It's pretty clear from their blog they pulled up while en route to somewhere else after hiking Ausangate. It was late in the afternoon and they were just looking for a place to camp. Based on my experience at least, whole villages do not gang up on you smash your teeth out for taking pictures. They might get annoyed and ask for money, but that's about it. And in general, no, it is not taking your life into your hands to take picture in Colombia or anywhere else in Latin America. Borders are not a problem. If it is a sensitive military installation, they will tell you to cut it out. That's it.

But pat, thank you for the link to the El Comercio article. I like the mistaken identity hypothesis much better. I'm not sure about rustlers, there must be some other reason the villagers were on edge. I would love to know. That area has a sad history from the Sendero Luminoso years. But who knows? Self-protection spiraled out of control, then, vigilanteism.

mark felber, your comment,

Sounds like a well organized neighborhood watch program went into action at that point.

is spot on.

But you can't always hire a local guide. Especially not if you're just traveling from A to B. Remember, they were camping for *safety* reasons, because it is dangerous to drive at night (and it is). Sensible enough. They were in a tight spot, made the decision to camp, and ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Total 20:20 hindsight, but I do think that *if* they had not attempted to flee, and *if* they had been totally apologetic, sucked up, handed over their documents and completely complied with the requests of the locals, things wouldn't have gotten out of control. In other words, do NOT stand your ground (guys without guns get robbed, guys with guns get shot).

But who am I to say I would have done any different? It's tempting to just to jump into your car and drive off. Unfortunately in their case they drove off the wrong way. By the time they turned around the villagers were already riled up and it was too late.

Patrick Vernon · · Grand Junction, CO · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 965

Brad, I don't think taking pictures had anything to do with it, I just noticed on their blog they took some pictures in situations where it might not have been wise to. I thought it was indicative of their overall judgement which made the situation worse. I think it was a gross miscommunication, mistaken identity, and lingering resentment all rolled into one with a sad outcome. There is a huge thread on Supertopo full of vitrol and wild conjecture (I am guilty of both) its an interesting read if you check it out.

-Pat

yeego · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 35

It's not too surprising for situations like this to happen. I'm surprise it doesn't happen more often. You need to understand that a lot of people around the world do not like americans that much. The mentallity of most americans are like vehicle commercials; go anywhere you want, do anything you want, and expecting instant gratification & entitlement. Even if you are not like this, people of other countries view you as such. This will not be a popular post and is not intended to disrespect the victims, but it is true. I don't condone the actions of the villagers, but it seems they had some reasons for their behavior. Take extra care while travelling outside this country.

Dirty Gri Gri, or is it GiGi? · · Vegas · Joined May 2005 · Points: 4,115

Brad, I wasn't trying to say that taking pictures in itself caused this level of violence, but it can certainly get the ball rolling on pissing folks off, especially if they're already somewhat paranoid, and on edge for whatever reasons. In my experience, when I've seen folks get their teeth knocked out, and jaws broken it was usually from an escalating incident of mouthing off, and disrespecting someone, or their people. We'll probably never hear the whole truth from either side, but it makes a lot of sense in what you said about NOT standing your ground in certain situations in these unstable regions; you'll most likely lose, especially when outnumbered by armed, pissed off folks.

The end.

Kurt Johnson · · Estes Park, CO · Joined Dec 2001 · Points: 2,660

Brad's last post is by far the most reasoned I've read so far. I've traveled in Peru and many other developing countries, primarily in Latin America, and I've found rural areas to be the safest (although I haven't been in countries where major conflict is going on). Obviously there's a backstory to the attack that hopefully we'll discover as more information comes out. And while one can speculate that handing over their documents might have prevented the confrontation, if it were me, I probably would have done the same thing they did, suspecting that I was about to be robbed or even worse. However, as has already been said, hindsight is 20:20, and it probably was a case of mistaken identity and a neighborhood watch which, combined with miscommunication, spiraled out of control.

wankel7 · · Indiana · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 10

I wonder if the bear spray made it worse?

What a tough call you are being attacked do you go offensive or defensive?

Good idea on the copies of documents. I heard an idea of even going to the trouble to make very good copies and laminating them while deeply hiding the real ones.

Is there any sort of insurance that would cover the vehicle and gear? Emergency evacuation iinsurance?

I would guess the villagers didn't realize their actions would be international news.

Eric G. · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 70

Pure speculation, but it seems unlikely that any villager seriously thought the wealthy Americans in the camper were there to steal their livestock. I'll bet there is more to this story.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

here is a PM I got from Jon c. Sullivan

"its a third world country its to be expected..."
Im sick of cocks like you making smart ass remarks on MP were some posts are in need of serious responses and discussions. Go join the "how to tie a figure 8" discussion. Third world country does not mean more danger than anywhere else. How many shootings have we had with mass casualties in the US this year? This is not to single you out, but you and all of the other tools who think they can hide their shitty humor or personalities online with these cheeky responses.

lol Umad?

YOU TAKE THE INTERNET TOO SERIOUS BRAH

mark felber · · Wheat Ridge, CO · Joined Jul 2005 · Points: 41
Eric G. wrote:Pure speculation, but it seems unlikely that any villager seriously thought the wealthy Americans in the camper were there to steal their livestock. I'll bet there is more to this story.
Why wouldn't they think that? Three Americans roll up a camper, set up camp without asking anybody's permission, refuse to identify themselves or explain their presence and try to run when the questioning gets too intense. If I were a farmer worried about livestock rustlers, that's about the time I would start to think that those 3 were up to no good, and I would fall back on whatever plans I had made with my neighbors to deal with rustlers.
Eric G. · · Saratoga Springs, NY · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 70
mark felber wrote: Why wouldn't they think that? Three Americans roll up a camper, set up camp without asking anybody's permission, refuse to identify themselves or explain their presence and try to run when the questioning gets too intense. If I were a farmer worried about livestock rustlers, that's about the time I would start to think that those 3 were up to no good, and I would fall back on whatever plans I had made with my neighbors to deal with rustlers.
This is how the encounter began, according the the Americans:

"We were almost immediately approached by two village residents, who were friendly and who we asked if it was ok to park and camp where we had. They said yes. Soon, the two men were blowing whistles and using their cell phones to alert their friends of our presence and many more village residents started gathering around us, including the man who they called the Presidente."

This does not suggest the villagers suspected they had rustlers on their hands. If the Americans are to be credited, they had permission to camp.
kirkadirka · · Down there somewhere · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 115

Very sad to read this story. I can say all of my travels to S. America have been great experiences, and I've been to some less populated areas as a climber.

Regardless of whether they were naive or not, nobody deserves to be treated that way if their story is accurate.

Best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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