Help Climbers Attacked in Peru
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Cattle rustlers/thieves?? Interesting to hear another side of the story . What a misunderstanding. Language barriers are never good in sketchy areas, especially on other folks land. |
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It looks like cattle rustler then. They were probably thought to be cattle rustlers when the villagers first saw them and any attempts at conversation were made I am assuming. |
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So, someone from the village demanded to see their papers. They thought it was a scam to steal their passports, etc., and when they refused the locals assumed they were cattle rustlers out to grab some livestock. Sounds like a well organized neighborhood watch program went into action at that point. Hiring a local guide/translator and talking to the locals (and maybe offering to pay the landowner before setting up camp on his land) might have saved them some grief. |
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Sounds like a bit of the old Wild Wild West going on in that area. Plan accordingly... |
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With rampant crime and no dependable police force in the area, it would make sense for the locals to organize like that. Stealing somebody's livestock in that part of the world can mess up that person's life pretty badly. Cattle rustlers in the original Wild West didn't get treated too gently, either. |
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Not sure if these tourists were taking pictures in the area they were attacked, but I can see folks getting paranoid if strangers are taking pics of their people, and their livestock on their land. I know many of us would be angry, or suspicious if someone, or people who didn't identify themselves drove by our house, and took pics of our kids, and animals. Just sayin' Tourists can be a little too trigger happy with their fancy cameras at times. Just be careful, and put yourselves in other folks shoes if you tend to be a snapaholic. |
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Interesting that you mention that GiGi, |
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Yikes! One might take pics of drug fields, deals, and corrupt police action inadvertently in some of those regions if they're not careful. Hope they get paid well for pics like that. |
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Holy crap. Uh yeah. I'm sorry but you do not do that. Especially in those countries. I really would like to hear the village's account of what happened/ why. |
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I really want to understand this story. I have traveled for over 40 years all over Latin America and I love it. Especially in my own vehicle, which I love best of all. Incidents like this are very, very rare. The closest one I can think of is the mobbing of those tourists in Guatemala who were mistaken for "baby snatchers" (thanks Gri Gri for the link). |
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Brad, I don't think taking pictures had anything to do with it, I just noticed on their blog they took some pictures in situations where it might not have been wise to. I thought it was indicative of their overall judgement which made the situation worse. I think it was a gross miscommunication, mistaken identity, and lingering resentment all rolled into one with a sad outcome. There is a huge thread on Supertopo full of vitrol and wild conjecture (I am guilty of both) its an interesting read if you check it out. |
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It's not too surprising for situations like this to happen. I'm surprise it doesn't happen more often. You need to understand that a lot of people around the world do not like americans that much. The mentallity of most americans are like vehicle commercials; go anywhere you want, do anything you want, and expecting instant gratification & entitlement. Even if you are not like this, people of other countries view you as such. This will not be a popular post and is not intended to disrespect the victims, but it is true. I don't condone the actions of the villagers, but it seems they had some reasons for their behavior. Take extra care while travelling outside this country. |
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Brad, I wasn't trying to say that taking pictures in itself caused this level of violence, but it can certainly get the ball rolling on pissing folks off, especially if they're already somewhat paranoid, and on edge for whatever reasons. In my experience, when I've seen folks get their teeth knocked out, and jaws broken it was usually from an escalating incident of mouthing off, and disrespecting someone, or their people. We'll probably never hear the whole truth from either side, but it makes a lot of sense in what you said about NOT standing your ground in certain situations in these unstable regions; you'll most likely lose, especially when outnumbered by armed, pissed off folks. |
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Brad's last post is by far the most reasoned I've read so far. I've traveled in Peru and many other developing countries, primarily in Latin America, and I've found rural areas to be the safest (although I haven't been in countries where major conflict is going on). Obviously there's a backstory to the attack that hopefully we'll discover as more information comes out. And while one can speculate that handing over their documents might have prevented the confrontation, if it were me, I probably would have done the same thing they did, suspecting that I was about to be robbed or even worse. However, as has already been said, hindsight is 20:20, and it probably was a case of mistaken identity and a neighborhood watch which, combined with miscommunication, spiraled out of control. |
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I wonder if the bear spray made it worse? |
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Pure speculation, but it seems unlikely that any villager seriously thought the wealthy Americans in the camper were there to steal their livestock. I'll bet there is more to this story. |
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here is a PM I got from Jon c. Sullivan |
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Eric G. wrote:Pure speculation, but it seems unlikely that any villager seriously thought the wealthy Americans in the camper were there to steal their livestock. I'll bet there is more to this story.Why wouldn't they think that? Three Americans roll up a camper, set up camp without asking anybody's permission, refuse to identify themselves or explain their presence and try to run when the questioning gets too intense. If I were a farmer worried about livestock rustlers, that's about the time I would start to think that those 3 were up to no good, and I would fall back on whatever plans I had made with my neighbors to deal with rustlers. |
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mark felber wrote: Why wouldn't they think that? Three Americans roll up a camper, set up camp without asking anybody's permission, refuse to identify themselves or explain their presence and try to run when the questioning gets too intense. If I were a farmer worried about livestock rustlers, that's about the time I would start to think that those 3 were up to no good, and I would fall back on whatever plans I had made with my neighbors to deal with rustlers.This is how the encounter began, according the the Americans: "We were almost immediately approached by two village residents, who were friendly and who we asked if it was ok to park and camp where we had. They said yes. Soon, the two men were blowing whistles and using their cell phones to alert their friends of our presence and many more village residents started gathering around us, including the man who they called the Presidente." This does not suggest the villagers suspected they had rustlers on their hands. If the Americans are to be credited, they had permission to camp. |
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Very sad to read this story. I can say all of my travels to S. America have been great experiences, and I've been to some less populated areas as a climber. |