Climber Gets injured on Mr. Meanor 5-8+ Trad mixed route JailHouse Mt. Lemmon

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, I wondered at first if the issue was her taking pictures of the whole thing, I knew he wanted pictures taken but Buff wouldn't have known that.

I didn't think it was an issue of her posting the picture as most people wouldn't know who that was from that picture. I saw the whole thing as them having different views on what should have been done so I wouldn't say anything negative about his choices and I didn't see Kelsey as doing that either. He went for it, it didn't work out, I'm a scared ass overly cautious climbing, some aren't, I both wish I was more like and happy I'm not like the ones who aren't.

I don't know but I'm also not the smartest guy around so that may have something to do with it.

Some kinda get where that point was coming from.

If you describe a blog where the climber puts up their own stuff and broadcasts out their mindset; or discuss the process by which someone came to have an accident/incident; I have no problem with the discussion. I don't think anyone would, it's a learning process. Technical climbing can be a highly involved team activity.

Sometimes stupid decisions are made, sometimes shit just happens.

When you post up pics in the public eye where someone else had a bad day and is injured, that should come from the climber or the climber's family (or with a note from the family to say please discuss this).

One thing I usually enjoy with this community is that climbers usually keep things between themselves & partners and discuss only the issues at hand; whereas the paparazzi peak-baggers are posting pics left & right about how someone came to plaster themselves in epic fashion on the hillside for the world to take a gander. I think that can be just plain mean in some respects.

heh, i did the same thing on this climb, sans the decking. i also did another 5.8 or so mixed route without gear up at green slabs. both times my girlfriend was belaying me. just coincidence of course. i wasn't trying to impress her, i swears.

i wish you both a speedy physical and emotional recovery.

Hi Kelsey.

Thanks for giving a first-hand account of the accident. I wish you and the climber the best in recovering from this accident. I am glad that the outcome was not worse.

I was wondering if you could clarify one thing for me; how did you get the burns on your hands? I do not understand what you mean by "creating tension on his line to slow him down." Were you trying to take in slack while he was falling and then were unable to lock-off?

Thanks in advance for the clarification. Again, my best wishes to all concerned for a speedy recovery.

What i meant by creating tension on the line was: I had my left hand on break, had take up as much slack as possible that way but at the last minute I realized there was still too much rope so with my right hand I jumped up and grabbed the climbers side of the rope to create tension while still breaking with my left.

Thanks for the clarification.

Again, my best wishes to the climber and you for a speedy recovery.

Joe Kreidel wrote:I think these are good reminders to us all about the inherent danger in the games we play. If we choose to accept the risk involved in climbing, accidents can happen, even on climbs well below our limit. Rock fall, holds breaking, momentary lapse of concentrations, etc can happen to any of us, unexpectedly, at any time. I did the exact same thing on this route - got to the first bolt, looked for the next bolt, and THEN my belayer remembered that this was a mixed route. Since we were hoping to run laps on this to warm up, I went ahead and ran it out to the second bolt, pretty far up there. No falls, but not something I would not do again. It was definitely my ego that goaded my to finish it -"Dude, it's ONLY 5.8....". But you fall just as hard on a 5.8 as you do a 5.12.

And sometimes a harder landing on the 5.8 cuz that 5.12 is most likely overhanging and allows for a nice airy free fall with no bumps and ledges inbetween. Always carry a couple pieces I say, even on a sporty where you might just feel the need for a backup or a solid rest due to whatever circumstances come up.

great thread ~ thanks for posting & sharing Kelsey

the thoughtful insights shared from some of the more experienced climbers here definitely contributed to an interesting & important read

best wishes for your partners' complete & speedy recovery

I thought I could make the climb and I was wrong. I should have listened to you when you said to come down. We all make our own choices. You also had not much exp on lead belay which I chose to ignore. I think you did a good job of being there for me and owe you both my life. My ego did get in the way that day and I thought I could make the next bolt before I came back down. My ego and poverty led me to go on. I didnt want to leave my gear on the wall and learned a hard lesson. I feel like your post here is more of an attack rather than a serious issue about warning people about climbing. I still climb to this day and whatever happened that day I made it off the mountain alive. I owe Kelsey my life and the other guy who was with us that day ran out of prison camp literally and to the parking lot numerous times. Long story short. I fell. Kelsey did warn me not to continue actually I believe they both warned me but the climb looked easy and I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.

DPC wrote: I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.

You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?

John D wrote: You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?

I said "I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/i

John D wrote: You couldn't tell if a bolted route had been done before or not?

I as in I. Me. Myself.

dan you climb?

Scott McMahon wrote: Man, "pulled" starts to sound weired when you say it alot...

every word is like this, i've found. Found. Found. Found.

Kelsey did say that he was "sitting at the first bolt" when they were discussing the stich. I took "pull" as just demanding that he not continue/lowering him from the first bolt and not literally pulling him off the wall.

If the climber decided to keep going, that's his choice. It is then the belayer's responsibility to safely belay. Of course, alpine situations are a little different as everyone's life is at stake with every decision, so it is more of a group vote than a, "i'm climbing this" - "OK, but I think yer gunna die" type decision.

Glad everyone is OK.

From my experiences the only way you get rope burn belaying is if the rope is allowed to become uncontrolled... and you then try to control it.

It sounds like he took a big fall and the belayer didn't do what they were expected to do... hold the rope, at least not right away.

I would highly suggest using an autolocking belay device going forward until you become more competent on an ATC or whatever non locking device you were using.

It still baffels me to be honest that people use non autolockers for belaying.

@Paul and everyone else:

Paul presents, I think, the most salient learning point - namely the tip about always having a bit of gear, unless you KNOW the route doesn't require it for your level. I would summarize my lessons learned from this event: If you've never been on a route, be prepared...to bail (should have); to place gear (didn't bring any); to climb as a member of an experienced team (didn't happen); if you're hanging at the first bolt, and sketchy on the moves to the second, BAIL! (see first point)

In conclusion, I would like to express my personal admiration and gratitude for the rescue personnel. You guys know the deal, and I'm so thankful you did what you did.

J

Holy necro threads, batman!

Kelsey, I know this was 3 years ago, and I wasn't there, but how did you get a rope burn? I presume that if you got a rope burn from "creating tension on his line to slow him down", that would mean that you did not fully brake the rope and you let the climber fall all the way to the ground, making it your fault that the climber decked. If you had properly caught his fall you probably would have been pulled off the ground and hanging around 5-10 ft up without 2nd degree burns on your hand. For your hands to get burned the rope had to be sizzling through the belay device. Sorry DPC, it sounds like you got dropped.

Spri wrote:Holy necro threads, batman!

Holy phoenix, you're right. I didn't realize how old this thing was. Zombie thread... Back from the dead.

DPC wrote:I thought I could make the climb and I was wrong. I should have listened to you when you said to come down. We all make our own choices. You also had not much exp on lead belay which I chose to ignore. I think you did a good job of being there for me and owe you both my life. My ego did get in the way that day and I thought I could make the next bolt before I came back down. My ego and poverty led me to go on. I didnt want to leave my gear on the wall and learned a hard lesson. I feel like your post here is more of an attack rather than a serious issue about warning people about climbing. I still climb to this day and whatever happened that day I made it off the mountain alive. I owe Kelsey my life and the other guy who was with us that day ran out of prison camp literally and to the parking lot numerous times. Long story short. I fell. Kelsey did warn me not to continue actually I believe they both warned me but the climb looked easy and I couldnt tell if I had done it before or not.

DPC, wow, thanks for your response (remarkably, four years later!). I am very glad to hear that you are recovered and still climbing! There are always lessons learned in accidents, so thanks for sharing.

bradyk wrote:Kelsey, I know this was 3 years ago, and I wasn't there, but how did you get a rope burn? I presume that if you got a rope burn from "creating tension on his line to slow him down", that would mean that you did not fully brake the rope and you let the climber fall all the way to the ground, making it your fault that the climber decked. If you had properly caught his fall you probably would have been pulled off the ground and hanging around 5-10 ft up without 2nd degree burns on your hand. For your hands to get burned the rope had to be sizzling through the belay device. Sorry DPC, it sounds like you got dropped.

Kelsey Rentchler wrote:What i meant by creating tension on the line was: I had my left hand on break, had take up as much slack as possible that way but at the last minute I realized there was still too much rope so with my right hand I jumped up and grabbed the climbers side of the rope to create tension while still breaking with my left.

Sounds as if there were a lot of slack in the system, but since the original post noted that the climber was clipping after a 15' runout, that pretty much yields a maximum amount of slack. My speculation is that the belayer saw the fall, locked off, and instinctively grabbed the climber's side of the rope with her non-brake hand, thereby resulting in the burn. The only way to have taken in more slack quickly would have been to run away (back or sideways), and the belayer explained she couldn't move back as she was blocked by a tree. I wonder how far up she was yanked once the belay took hold...

I recently caught a climber (on ice no less) who fell when clipping a screw, and I was shocked how far he fell -- significantly farther than I expected based simply on how far he was above the last screw (yes, I was expecting double that distance) because of some amount of slack, the additional rope stretch, and the distance I was yanked up. (Amazingly and thankfully, he cleared a bulge in the ice and had a clean fall, despite all the sharp, pointy metal stuff attached to his body.) This incident really made me realize how much risk we all take when leading above pro when there is an obstruction even below twice the distance to the last pro -- more than I previously realized.