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Auto-Belay Devices

Original Post
The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

Just looking for some general thoughts on auto-belay devices from climbers. Being new to the sport, I stumbled upon this concept at the US National Whitewater Center. Most of my time spent there is, obviously, whitewater kayaking for hours on end and then mountain biking the trails for amping up my cardio.

For the most part, I ignored the climbing walls until recently. Not having a partner to climb with, I asked the attendant at the wall if he would belay me for a couple of climbs. He then explained one of the walls has an auto-belay device. Essentially, it is set up for those who don't have a climbing partner. I found this odd and bit unnerving.

I guess my gripe with this system is it does not allow the climber to properly rest, request or receive beta from their belayer, vocalize their needs, or really select the proper routes. If you stop, you are holding on with your arms fully engaged. Doing this repeatedly, could damage or cause some major injury to the climber.

On the other hand, it forces the climber to basically HangDog the entire route, otherwise, you will come down intentionally or not. One could argue such a system is good for conditioning, but is it really? HangDogging too much could become habit forming and defeat the whole point of climbing--especially lead climbing, right? I found, I rushed through just to get to the top, not thinking about hand or foot placement. I just didn't want to "hang" anymore.

I am really curious as to what others think about this type system. I look forward to some engaging conversation.

~Ericka~

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

You are correct it could be injurious to the climber to rest by hanging on their arms, we have a term for this in climbing called getting "pumped".

very injurious....horrible really

could cause a horrible fall.

The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0
thefish wrote:You are correct it could be injurious to the climber to rest by hanging on their arms, we have a term for this in climbing called getting "pumped". very injurious....horrible really could cause a horrible fall.
So you understand where I am going with this concept? I find it promotes a failure induced climb. Essentially, making the climber (especially a newbe) lazy and effectively dangerous for "real" climbs.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
Ericka Heath wrote: So you understand where I am going with this concept? I find it promotes a failure induced climb. Essentially, making the climber (especially a newbe) lazy and effectively dangerous for "real" climbs.
yes i see your logic

lazy and dangerous newbies can be very dangerous on climbs

they could fall
highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion · · Colorado · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 35

I just swallowed an entire puffer fish. Don't make any loud noises.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330
Ericka Heath wrote:...HangDogging...
I don't think this word means what you think it means
David House · · Boulder, CO · Joined Nov 2001 · Points: 453

I am appalled at how often the auto belays at my local gym malfunction. Halfway up when I need a rest and yell "take" it inevitably lowers me to the ground! I guess it is a trad auto belay, I wish they would put in some sport models ;-)

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

POPCORN TIME !!!

The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0
csproul wrote: I don't think this word means what you think it means
No, not in the climber's dictionary sense of the word. Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to me hanging like a dog by one arm and my shoulder in excruciating pain. All the while questioning this entire concept and how it could be useful for ANY climber, let alone a newcomer like myself.
sanz · · Pisgah Forest, NC · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 210
The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0
David Houston wrote:I am appalled at how often the auto belays at my local gym malfunction. Halfway up when I need a rest and yell "take" it inevitably lowers me to the ground! I guess it is a trad auto belay, I wish they would put in some sport models ;-)
David, that brings up yet another issue I hadn't thought of--device failure. The one's at the whitewater center are not even as sophisticated as what you are referring to. One misplaced hand or foot and your on the ground before you know it. They don't even give you lessons on how to use the damn thing. I watched two girls pony up to the wall and get hooked in. Off they go, only to fall flat on their butts when they missed a step. They said the only thing they had ever climbed was the stairs to their apartment!!!!!!
The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0
Smarty Ports/Shants wrote:Hi, Ericka. Welcome to Sarcasm World, we're having a big sale right now... The concept you're talking about is something worth thinking about. However, the bottom line is that toproping and lead are very different mediums, and this tends to be very apparent once you leave the ground. The cumulative effects of running laps and getting pumped tend towards not getting as pumped, which will help, not hinder you, on lead. Leading is a self-limiting medium. If you posess any of the standard survival instinct that most of us do, you'll stay out of trouble on the lead for the most part by making intelligent, and eventually, experience-based decisions about what you're capable of. Have fun, be safe.
Yeah, I am sensing the sarcasm. I have climbed on rock and the "plasticy" stuff painted to look like rock. Toproping is easy, even for me the FNG. However, lead climbing is a different animal. After watching some people jump right up to the wall with seemingly no sense of safety or a clue of self-preservation; this system kind of worries me. I foresee litigation issues for centers that offer this style of climbing for those with NO experience whatsoever.
Mikey Seaman · · Boise, ID · Joined Sep 2010 · Points: 5

You gotta learn how to rest dude. You don't use you hands when your rest, ideally, or as little as possible, or comfortably an efficiently alternating. Footwork is important to lessen the load carried by your arms, and can often be overlooked by those new to the sport. If you are trying to rest by hanging painfully on your shoulder, you are doing it wrong. Rest actively on your way up, moving slowly and in control; flick your hands when you can; grip as tightly as you need and try not to over do it.

Woodchuck ATC · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 3,280

Ericka: Screw the colored tape routes in that gym. Just find the easiest way to grasp holds to go up the route on the 'autobelay' device. Smooth movements with ease, so you don't get pumped. ( how high is the place?) Or pick a lower, shorter route if you can. Try to build up stamina to do 'laps' up and down several times on the autobelay route. BUT don't hog it if there is a line waiting to use the climb. Then when you get stronger and feel more comfortable, try the colored tape routes for more difficulty.
In reality, you need to find a climber to partner up with to get the most out of the sport in any sense.

The Maverick · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

Thanks for ALL your input. I was looking for both sides of the issue and I certainly found it.

Got some sustainable information for future climbing decisions. Remember this sport ranks third in my bag of insanity. I'm not looking for competition, just fitness and a break from throwing law breakers in jail on a daily basis.

Again thanks for your input!

Climb Safe!

NC Rock Climber · · The Oven, AKA Phoenix · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 60

Ericka, i know that you are new to climbing and the forum here. don't be put off by all the sarcasm. most climbers (myself included) are much bigger assholes online than in person. Meet us at the crag, and most everyone is cool.

That being said, I think that you are somewhat off-base on how you are looking at auto belay systems. They are just a tool, and IMHO, they great for increasing your time and vertical feet of climbing experience. You can find the easiest route on the wall (or just make your own) and practice moving in a vertical environment. You can use this type of practice to both refine your technique and develop some climbing specific conditioning. As an absolute beginner, you will benefit a lot from this type of training.

As far as safety, ALWAYS make sure that you are clipped in. In the gym I use I have, on more than one occasion, see a person get to the top, prepare to lean back only to realize that they forgot to clip into the auto belay. Sounds stupid, but it happens with frightening regularity.

One more thing. I have not been to the whitewater center since 2009, and left Charlotte in 2011. However, when I was there the route setting at the whitewater center was pretty bad. Inner Peaks, the gym in Charlotte, had some pretty good route setting. I don't know who is setting there now, but Doug (the owner) takes a lot of pride in the facility and I am confident that the quality of the routes there is still top notch. If you want to climb indoors, drive the extra :30 and give inner peaks a try.

good luck and climb safe!

Jeremy Riesberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 5

Ahh, this has to be a joke.

Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090
NC Rock Climber wrote:Ericka, i know that you are new to climbing and the forum here. don't be put off by all the sarcasm. most climbers (myself included) are much bigger assholes online than in person. Meet us at the crag, and most everyone is cool. That being said, I think that you are somewhat off-base on how you are looking at auto belay systems. They are just a tool, and IMHO, they great for increasing your time and vertical feet of climbing experience. You can find the easiest route on the wall (or just make your own) and practice moving in a vertical environment. You can use this type of practice to both refine your technique and develop some climbing specific conditioning. As an absolute beginner, you will benefit a lot from this type of training. As far as safety, ALWAYS make sure that you are clipped in. In the gym I use I have, on more than one occasion, see a person get to the top, prepare to lean back only to realize that they forgot to clip into the auto belay. Sounds stupid, but it happens with frightening regularity. One more thing. I have not been to the whitewater center since 2009, and left Charlotte in 2011. However, when I was there the route setting at the whitewater center was pretty bad. Inner Peaks, the gym in Charlotte, had some pretty good route setting. I don't know who is setting there now, but Doug (the owner) takes a lot of pride in the facility and I am confident that the quality of the routes there is still top notch. If you want to climb indoors, drive the extra :30 and give inner peaks a try. good luck and climb safe!
I set at IP for a while and am still very close to the staff. Great place to get one good knowledge, classes, and experience.
Brian Croce · · san diego, CA · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 60

Erika need to have your belayer give you a rest, is just admitting that you failed at the route.

The auto-belay device sensing your immenent failure throws you back to the ground to start over. It is a very smart machine.

Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
superkick wrote:Erika need to have your belayer give you a rest, is just admitting that you failed at the route. The auto-belay device sensing your immenent failure throws you back to the ground to start over. It is a very smart machine.
yes this is correct.

my colleague from connecticut has stated some correct information.

immenent failure of dangerous lead climbing is bad for beginning climbers.
Brian Croce · · san diego, CA · Joined Aug 2011 · Points: 60

though the one at the gym near me claims to be a fully magnetic system..but doesnt use a BD magnetron for clipping in? whats up with that???

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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